An insight into the mindset of someone who is persistently late.

[deviantfeline]

There's always loads of posts on AIBU about people who hate those who are persistently late and how there no excuse for it. Also lots of people claiming 'time blindness' or inability to plan that causes it.

I'm often late. I hate it but my brain doesn't seem to be able to calculate periods of time in a way that means I can plan appropriately. Today was one of those even though I thought I totally had this. Reflecting on what went wrong here's a timeline.

I needed to get a train at 12pm to a meeting. They are once an hour and so couldn't miss it. I set an alarm at 11am that told me to go and get ready to leave for the station. It's a 3 minutes drive and a 2 minute walk from the car park. I know that at this time it's hard to get a parking spot so I factor in time to find one. I'll leave at 11.40 ish then. I spent the morning working from home.

11- alarm goes off. I think oh I've got loads of time and carry on working thinking I'll stop at 11.15 and get myself ready.
11.15 - think I'll finish the email I'm writing
11.23 - finish email and pack bag
Realise my make up and hair need a touch up and I've got loads of time so do that
11.32 - result. I'm done and ready to go with time to spare. This is easy! Find coat and shoes, locate car and door keys, put cups in dishwasher, find umbrella as it's now raining and my phone charger, kiss dog goodbye and give her a treat, lock up house.
Get in car. Somehow it's now 11.47?! How the hell did that happen? It was 11.32 wasn't it? Fuck fuck fuck.
11.52 - arrive at car park having had to stop at a zebra for 2 mins for loads of people crossing. Hadn't factored in the high street would busy as it's midday.
No car parks as predicted! Drive back up the street and finally find one. It's 11.58. Grab my stuff and sprint and get on the train as the doors are closing.

Despite my planning i screwed it up again. I've noticed that I have a time blindness for the time it takes between 'I'm ready' and actually going. In my mind that would take 30 seconds yet it somehow took 15 minutes?!

Its almost worse when I leave plenty time as my brain starts telling me I've got time to do other stuff rather then just leaving! Also I can't visualise the time passing since I looked at the time at 11.32 and getting in the car. That time seems to be the black spot for me to time manage with any ability.

Crisis only slightly averted but I'm soo cross with myself. So you 'on timers'. What would you have done differently and what was my biggest error?

I also resent being early, because I always have a million things to do and therefore dislike the wasted time. So I aim to arrive "just in time", but invariably that ends up being late.

How interesting!

I never thought about it like that.

My focus is always on getting out of the house "in plenty of time".

Rather be waiting at the station/airport/meeting point than fretting on the way that you may not make it!

For me the "million things" will be there when you get back!

But when they are continuously late and know they are making people wait for them every single time and it goes on for years then they must know they really do not have time even if in their mind they really think they do!

I used to work with someone who had the exact way of thinking - that they had plenty of time to potter around doing not very much. Which then meant they then left a trail of work for the next person who took over their shift. Surely it’s not rocket science to think “I really am not going to have time left, I can’t continue to think like this when I know I’ve been late for many other events over the years and people have been kept waiting which has resulted in them also being late”

Im really sorry but I am finding it difficult to understand your logic or reasoning that people think they have way more time than they have. Maybe if it happens once or twice, fair enough - people are human and can lose track of time or misjudge how long something will take to do. BUT being late for every single event, every meeting, every train journey, every catchup with your friend at the cafe just really isn’t fair to the people who are on the receiving end. Other people manage to get there on time and if one person struggles with that then they need to write down a plan in advance of how they are going to manage their time when they need to be in a certain place at a certain time.

1. Work backwards from the objective (plan).
2. Foresee what may go wrong and have a fix for it (contingency plan).
3. Focus - from start to finish (execution).

Well the people you're making wait for you are more resentful, because they have a million things to do as well, but your selfish attitude is making them waste their time.

Why are you more important than the person waiting for you?

I think the problem is that you’ve planned your time according to it going perfectly and things rarely do. I have had many frantic moments getting the kids out the house but am very rarely late because I assume something will go wrong. I’m always on time but my children do not naturally have that drive yet and faff which drives me crazy.

Some people do just get distracted and faff about. My children are examples of this- me ‘I asked you to put on your socks 10 minutes ago, why do you only have one on?” Child “I was doing it but then I needed to brush my unicorn’s hair and then I thought she was lonely so brought bear over to join her and then bear wanted a cup of tea…” some adults never grow out of this approach where a simple task takes forever because they start doing something else. So in the OP’s case, the washing up or other bits and pieces.

So in the OP’s scenario , If I had a train I absolutely had to make at 12 and parking was ropey, I’d have wanted to be leaving by 11.30 at the latest. My bag would have been packed first thing so no faffing. I’d have stopped between 11.15 and 11.20 to have a wee, check doors etc.

Quite. PPs who won't accept that it isn't about laziness or selfishness or a lack of regard for someone else's time are a shining example of the fact that if you don't understand then you don't understand and you will never understand because your brain works differently. If THEY were late for something then it may well be because they were being lazy or rude and so they cannot comprehend any other reason.

I suspect this is how it will always be, it is very hard work walk a mile in someone else's shoes completely.

It doesn't really matter if I've taken 2 flights or 100 - missing the 2 two I did cost me over a grand and nearly 16 hours of waiting in the airport. Why on earth would I ever do that voluntarily? If as you say the stakes are so high and I STILL missed them, does that not show how much of a struggle it is? So, yes, I am also sometimes late for work or to meet a friend for coffee.

I had a very good friend who I used to meet up with. She was late, every single time. One day I didn't hurry, took my time and browsed in a bookshop. Then I went to meet her. She was furious! She'd been waiting for me!
I thought it was interesting how she had centred herself again - not making it on time, but with the expectation that I would.

From an ADHD perspective I don’t think it’s in order to get the dopamine rush, it’s more you need that pressure to get the dopamine in order to be able to get any forward motion I.e. to get yourself onto the train. It’s not necessarily about getting kicks from cutting it to the wire for the sake of it. Yes, it is a nightmare and it does ultimately fail in the end (like when your brakes and discs wear out on the car) - I’m not saying your husband is like this (ND or motivation), I’m saying that it is a struggle in some with ADHD

The thing I find frustrating about ADHD is there now seems to be this movement of 'Oh I can't help it, it's my ADHD!' Or memes about ADHD traits like you have zero control over it and that's not true. ADHD is something that makes life harder but it requires you, whether diagnosed or undiagnosed, to adjust your life and to find solutions that help. There's a lot you can do to put strategies in place but it requires work and understanding yourself and evaluating when things go wrong and it does take time to do that. It's only from my mid-30s I've really worked out what it is I need to do to keep my life organised in a way that other people don't necessarily have to fight to do, so I have strategies for cleaning, for keeping on top of appointments, for being on time, all that stuff. But if you don't DO anything to help yourself then it's hard to be sympathetic.

no. Where it gets to laziness/rudeness is where the person makes no effort to manage or mitigate the issue and just has the attitude of "oh that is what I am like"

I hate being late, but my natural tendencies are to procrastination, so I do exactly what the OP does, but shift all the deadline 15 minutes earlier to allow myself some faffing about time.

for a 12 o’clock train I will be standing on the platform at 11.45. if I know parking might be an issue then I would aim to arriving at the station at 11.30. If it’s a 10 minute drive I’d leave at 11.15. My stop working and starting faffing time would e at 10.45. Ideally I’d have everything ready the night before, but I usually give in to the ‘ah I’ll get up early and do it in the morning’ urge.

OP - the biggest mistake is thinking that 12 is the hard stop because that’s when the train leaves.

I am by no means super organised, I suspect I have ADHD, and I’ve learnt this the hard way.

I have a friend like this too. She is late 19 times out of 20. If I am 10 minutes late the 20th time because the Tube broke down, she will tell everyone that I am 'always' late. She is no longer a good friend as I have got tired of waiting up to 30 minutes.
The other thing I have noticed is that people who self diagnose themselves with ADHD always get furious if I self diagnose myself with ADHD! Even though I have some of the symptoms.

I also resent being early, because I always have a million things to do and therefore dislike the wasted time. So I aim to arrive "just in time", but invariably that ends up being late.

This is fascinating. If you are invariably late but resent dead time yourself, do you ever stop to think about the wasted time your mind set introduces into the lives of the people you keep waiting? Do you imagine the rest of the world is idle or has nothing to do except wait for you?

I could have written this, OP - I’m exactly the same. I’ve realised I’ve got a bit of a thing about how I can’t possibly be early but I have no idea why. In the odd time I’ve done it, it’s much better. So now I try to stop myself doing that extra thing I think I can squeeze in by firmly telling myself it’ll be fine to be early, it will absolutely not be fine to be late. I’m a work in progress though!

Absolutely. We are no longer friends.
I did notice that the one time she was punctual was when we had a trip to Amsterdam. She was at the airport before me....

Most people I know who are persistently late, will actively look for tasks to do at home 'oh I'll just quickly wash the dishes/sweep etc before I head out' kind of thing. Its all stuff they could've done the day before, or when they return. Im fine with my friends who are like this, they become 'phone friends' once I realise they're forever late. DP used to be a bit like this when I met him, always had to 'just do this or that' before meeting up. Until I told him 'if its so hard to get out of your house then just stay in it, Im not interested in waiting around on you'. Then he stopped.

Im self-employed, landed a large contract years ago and later discovered my predecessor was brilliant at the job but persistently late so they let him go. Im never really late as rush and stress isnt my thing I really couldnt bear to live like that, so I get stuff ready the night before.

Worked in a primary school and the numbers of children who were so anxious as parent always got them to school late. You could see the upset on them, especially when told off for being late. I doubt their parents even cared or noticed. When you're time poor and stressed, you impart that onto others. A child has to put up with you, but others don't.

People like to label everything these days.

If people genuinely have ADHD or some sort of disability where they absolutely are unable to manage their time fair enough. But the majority of people who I’ve come across are just completely selfish and tend to be late in a very passive aggressive way and do it on purpose.

For example, I was dating one guy who lived in another part of the county. He was very non commital, avoidant and pretended he wanted a relationship with me when he really didn’t. But didn’t want to tell me that as he’d strung me along for months. So to put me off he decided to turn up 3 hours late for the date. I normally wouldn’t put up with such shitty behaviour but I knew that he had a 3 hour journey and he wasn’t communicating properly so I assumed he’d set off and was stuck in traffic. Turned out that he only decided to set off at the time we had arranged to meet and his excuses for doing so were very lame “oh so and so just popped round to ask me something when I was about to set of” and “oh and then my mate turned up for a chat” and he did all this knowing I was already at our meeting place waiting for him!
Obviously thought he was so important I should wait for him! Selfish prick much!
I will also state that he already had trouble with timekeeping and was always late for everything as it was but that particular stunt he pulled was a whole new level of selfishness!

But in my head, I won't be making them wait for me, because I'll be on time (not early, but bang on time). That is my intention and what I earnestly believe is going to happen, every time. I never set out to be late or to keep people waiting.

The difficulty is in the planning. Thing that I think will take one minute, take eight minutes, and I don't seem to learn from this. I never think to factor in things like locating a missing shoe, or parking, or the possibility of getting stuck behind the bin collection lorry. I don't know why I don't learn from past experience - it's a source of great frustration to me!

I am like this and have been since a child - my adhd diagnosis was not a surprise!

I used to travel a lot for work and could not afford to miss trains so if my train leaves at 11, that becomes 10.45 for me.

I now use that as the guide for all timings - that allows a window of delay for traffic or travel but that 15 minute window is where I work backwards from when planning my timings.

Getting distracted because ‘I have loads of time’ is fatal. You need to become super strict with yourself. Think of it as a habit using a muscle that is totally out of condition right now. You need to train that muscle!

Would it help to say to yourself "I'm inconveniencing others, my lateness wastes their time, causes problems for them"? @FlowersOfSulphur ?.

DP is like this. It's taken me YEARS to stop being irritated by it. He genuinely has no concept of time.

Example, last Sunday going to the cinema. I'm already out. Pull up outside, ring him. He tells me he is ready. All he has to do is put shoes on, grab keys and wallet (always on the table by the door, he's very organised. Shows by the door too), lock flat door, walk downstairs. I timed him- it took 8 minutes! When he got in the car I gently enquirered what took so long. He was genuinely shocked and baffled to be told how long he'd taken!

You sound like my DH. Drives me nuts. I'll be sitting in the car with kids and dog and all the bags for everyone packed and loaded and he is twatting about inside. I hate being late and I hate the selfishness of him only having to think about his own stuff and yet being the last out the house. DC are older now so sort themselves, but to protect my blood pressure from exploding, I tell him that I will leave at a certain time and he can make his own way. I follow through. He is neurodiverse by the way and it sounds like you possibly are too.

I’m also a persistent late person despite having tried to sort it out and feeling a huge amount of guilt and shame about it, there is the part of my brain which is rational and knows how bad it is to be late, and that part will do all the organising, but once it’s time to start getting ready to leave that part has completely gone off-line, it’s like being in a trance.

I would leave earlier. Aim to be on platform well before train leaves. Allow plenty of time for every fuck up that might happen ( no parking available. Slow traffic etc).

I also learn from my mistakes. You know why what you did today, did not work. So use that knowledge to change what you do next time.