To think a lot of students won’t be really pushed to achieve the best grades

[shallweorderpizza]

As long as they pass?

I know individual teachers wil care and want their students to achieve but from a cynical data led point of view I think there will be a lot of 4/5 grades that could be 6/7 with some pushing.

My son did his gcses this year and his school have been amazing, they provided a mentoring programme and even arranged additional tutors after school for the children that wanted to take advantage of the help offered.

These children are 15/16, there is an element of personal responsibility to consider also and their parents being actively involved and supportive, having realistic conversations about outcomes and finding a balance of support and accountability.

I think too many parents rely completely upon schools for ALL of the elements that collectively impact their childrens education and outcomes and if they do they have no right to complain imo.

I think it varies wildly from school to school. The very ordinary comp my kids went to had after school sessions for everyone: Those struggling for the 4, those pushing for the 5-6, those on the edge of the 7 and 8 and the group going for the 9. The teachers put in a lot of their own time and effort, and so did the students, and it paid off. It's a school with a very mixed catchment in terms of wealth vs deprivation.

It's a crock of shit. Government wanted to set the pass to a 5 but we're talked out of it because it would reflect on them, so set it to a 4. Some bairns are capable but unable to sit exams so they get under the magic number.

Whole thing need to be taken to bits and recognise the one size fits all exam bollocks doesn't suit everyone.

You're talking absolute nonsense. We're measured on progress, so all students are pushed for that first of all. Even if that wasn't the case, teaching isn't really worthwhile unless you want your students to do well. There's a limit to how much you can do, though, because the student has to put in the extra time and revision at home and that can't really be forced. Also, there are a lot of competing subjects and only so much time so it's always a balancing act for the students.

So what about the kids who really don't bother with revision etc , yet still end up with all 8s and 9s? My niece has just done exactly that. My DD did the same 12 years ago ( although it was letters then) and I did my O levels half the time hungover without a stroke of revision and got As

I seen a post on Facebook, it was saying something along the lines of
Teachers have them 6 hours a day, do the work then don't send home homework.

I mean, my primary school kids, homework takes minimal time.

What are your thoughts on that.

@PolePrince55 I don't think that applies to secondary school, trying to compare homework between primary and secondary is like night and day. Completely different amounts, types and usefulness.

Low expectations often along side less resources are an issue in some schools - but MN tends towards higher social economic groups and there often focus on getting kids into grammar/private/better schools anyway and there a tendency to assume experiences are uniform.

Went to year meeting last year and they stood in front of year group and literally said to parenting body that given social and economic catchment area couldn't expect good results. When we first moved here under a different head they got much better exam results.

Thing is many kids still do well - ones with supportive families or with ones who pay for extra tuition - and many teachers/departments do still push kids who could do well or really want to - other departments can't keep staff or have less experienced staff and home support is vital for better than okay grades.

Some of DD2 peers have found they aren't going to do well enough for do what they want post 16 - they sit many exams Y10 here in Wales - so are trying mid GCSE to improve perhaps with more emphasis on grades before might have helped them focus a bit better - though DD2 year group seem to be very young and much slower than my older kids year groups to realise the exams do matter - school hasn't really done much career stuff with them at all.

As someone who's kids have just gone through a levels and GCSEs and also a child in primary I think there's a huge amount of pressure and expectation from the schools. My daughter became quite mentally unwell as a result of the pressure.

I'm happy for them to get what they do as long as they have tried their best. My eldest was a grade 9 student, my middle isn't as academic but she worked her socks off and got amazing grades for her. I'm so proud of them both. Someone's 6 can be someone's 9. I've been watching the GCSE tik toks and there's one where a lad gets his maths pass and is over the moon. He has succeeded but some may bit see it as a success because it's not an 8 or 9.

To add there's definitely more pressure now then there was when I did my exams.

Schools are now judged on the progress of all pupils towards their target grades. It's no longer a case of being judged on how many get a C/grade 4 or above as it used to be. So it's not in any school's data interests to not encourage kids to get to their targets. However you are correct that bigger classes do inevitably mean kids get less individual attention.

Exams should be pass or fail. You either understand the subject or you don’t. Grading is a reflection of how well you passed but it doesn’t take into account issues “on the day”. Scrap grades, pass and you’re good.

As a teacher for over 10 years, the pushing needs to come from the parents.
All I can do is spell our clearly what they need to do, and how to do it, but it's on them to do it. The 5 hours a fortnight I see each student, when there are between 25-30 of them, isn't going to allow me to give individual pep talks to each student regularly. That's on the parents., who are at home with them on an individual basis for much more time than I see them.

@brrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr yes that's interesting, especially when you think that's how practical work qualifications tend to work, I've done a number of different professional qualifications since uni and they were all pass/fail, either you're 'qualified' in the topic, or you're not.

If they need a 6 or 7 to take the relevant A level isn't that incentive? Plus many uni courses require some minimum GCSE grades (often a 6 or 7 in math for a surprising amount of degrees).
But many students a 4/5 is them working very hard and that's their best achievement and should be congratulated on that. They have plenty of options for next steps.
Others just may not be academically motivated no matter how bright and there's only so much you can do to incentivise them. I have one like that. And I have another who is incredibly motivated. One got 3/4s, the other 8/9s. One has a vocational qualification and the other is going to a top uni. Ask in ten years which one is happier/more successful as it isn't a given.

Honestly I think teachers are great but have finite time. I think parents are greatest predictors of children's success, based on their ie parents actions.

But I guess the question is qualified for what? The difference in aptitude between a 9 and a 4 at GCSE is massive. A person who gets a 4 in maths is highly unlikely to pass an a level for example and it would be unhelpful for them not to realise that before starting on said a-level.

if it’s pass/ fail then the pass/fail would need to be a lot higher- like around the 6/7 boundary.

There also needs to be some sort of way of grading for universities.- otherwise they’ll just set their own tests which will be pretty inefficient.

@LaPalmaLlama yes fair points, I guess that's what a pass is for more generally.

Again, what would happen if every pupil got a 4 or above? 100% “pass” rate? They’d say there was grade inflation and exams are too easy. Some students have to get 1,2,3s. That’s the system.

It’s an interesting debate, but personally
i hate working with a system where around 30% of the kids are basically set up to fail. So if one year we figured out the magic system and everyone did way better than the year before, the grade boundaries would just get higher. It doesn’t seem fair.

Exactly. In the current system, some pupils and some schools have to be less successful. It’s why proper performance management and pay is so difficult. Over the last few years the pressure to get results has massively increased, meaning teachers are pushing their students more than ever, but they can’t all succeed.

I would list all (or most) of what we do/did in the school that I worked at.
But IMO the OP is being goady, and just looking for excuses for their bad parenting and their child's poor results,