To be so impressed about how clean Tokyo (Japan)

[Travelfun]

First time in Tokyo and I am so impressed at how clean and organised it is. It is a pleasure to go out, I thought I was going to find a busy, chaotic city.

I live in London and can’t wait to head home when I go into town. I wish we could keep London and other British cities this clean.I think we got lots to learn from the Japanese.

Why can we achieve this cleanliness in London?

I live in Japan and while it has a lot of good points, there are definitely things that need to be improved.

The lack of rubbish bins is the direct result of a terrorist attack in Tokyo in 1995. Bins are widely available at convenience stores though. Doesn't help the litter problem though. I see so much on my commute.

There's also a lack of awareness about the world, like Japan invented New Years on 1st January, or that English is the only language spoken outside Japan.

Much though I love living here (strongly agree on the safety aspect) there's definitely a lot which needs to be improved here.

I think the point is that it's unwise to fetishize a country as everywhere has it's ups and downs and you don't see all that on holiday.

They have a strong focus on health so yes you wouldn't be tripping over a Kit Kat wrapper but people wouldn't be eating the Kit Kat as they would be worried that when they got weighed and measured at work they'd be too plump. There'd be no oh yes I know I weigh 28 stone but I am only a size 8 malarkey. Likewise my limited research suggests that an autistic person may struggle if they didn't conform to social stereotypes. So its what you value - but I agree the cleanliness is magnificent.

I met a lovely man while i was having a night out in tokyo.
Done my classic french exit in the morning went for breakfast just to see him with his wife at the next table.
Thank god my flight was that day.

Not Japan (though I'd love to go) but just been to Riga. Really clean, no rubbish, safe (it was quite warm and there were single women sitting alone in the park late evening reading and groups of youngish tweens walking around without adults) Saw very few police, but also saw no anti social behaviour.

According to the UN’s Gender Inequality Index, Japan is ranked 17th in the world while the UK is ranked 26th. Switzerland is 1st in the world. Yemen is the worst at 162nd.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gender_Inequality_Index

hdr.undp.org/data-center/thematic-composite-indices/gender-inequality-index#/indicies/GII

I lived in Japan for many years and I loved it. Of course it isn't a glorious utopia. Like every single other country I have visited, it has strengths and weaknesses.

It is entirely possible to celebrate and admire the country's many very impressive strengths without turning a blind eye to the inevitable weaknesses.

There is much that we could learn from Japan. There is much that Japan can learn from other countries. Those statements can be simultaneously true.

I agree with this. I visited Japan over 20 years ago - loved it and hope to go back one day. But one thing reallly unsettled me: seeing men read porn magazines on the metro at 8am on the way to work. I saw this on a few occasions and it was quite blatant, made me feel very uncomfortable. Does this still happen?

Very much so. Porn mags are readily available in supermarkets and convenience stores at child hight. Tits galore visibly open to the public. Online ads are also far more sexualised than the west. It's also very common for 10-13 year olds to be incredibly sexualised in anime, and calling children "sexy" is a cultural norm and very much a compliment.

Closer to home, Switzerland is amazingly clean.

What's wrong with Finland? Serious question. It does (on the surface at least,) seem paradise!

Finland has some of the worst alcohol and drug problems in the world, and a terrifyingly high suicide rate. It's because the climate is absolutely brutal and it's dark pretty much all the time in winter.

When I came back after travelling around Japan I felt profoundly depressed at the filth and general grimness of the UK

Me too!
I once spent 6 months in Tokyo. I had a form of culture shock when I came back as I'd got so used to living the "Japanese" way. I live in a grimy part of London and I really struggled with the dirt, the overall greyness of the environment and the rude people everywhere. I felt like I'd "softened" while in Japan and had to build up a hard edge again!

I know they have their issues. I made Japanese friends while living there so I learnt a lot. But I would still move there in a heartbeat if I could. At my age that would only be through a Euromillions win 😂but I live in hope!

calling children "sexy" is a cultural norm and very much a compliment.

This is definitely not true. Are you suggesting Japan is a country of paedophiles based on what you’ve watched in anime?

As for sexual content being sold in convenience stores etc, I was just in Spar and there were those types of magazines being sold at child height near the till. I was shocked to be honest and I won’t be going back there. I’ve seen those magazines in convenience stores in Japan as well. Disgusts me. This a problem with catering to men’s desires over women and children, and is not a problem unique to Japan.

In the US and in the UK, I’ve witnessed men watching pornography on their phones on public transport. I can only assume they are doing this to intimidate women. This is a rare occurrence thankfully, at least from my own experience which is limited. As for Japan, I’ve no doubt it happens there as well, but I’ve traveled on the trains during rush hour in Japan many times and never saw that.

I've had foreign visitors remark on how clean London is in comparison to say, NYC. It's all relative.

DH went on a business trip to Japan, which included the extreme "entertaining" that Japanese businessmen do. He said it was carnage in the cities every night, with people vomiting in the streets, but immaculate again by morning.

I guess they achieve that by paying the cleaners a pittance?

Aside from Japan, Latvia is a very clean country in terms of litter, respect for the environment and tidying up after yourself. After taking a group of British friends there last year they were shocked by the cleanliness of the cities and beaches and the lack of dog shit for every step you take. Everyone is taught by their families the importance of looking after our towns, city and forests. Also ‘controversially’ for some brits they actually use people on benefits to clean by the roads and motorways in more rural areas. No, not mothers at home with babies or disabled children etc before anyone gets too upset but people who receive a small amount of benefit from the government must help with these sorts of activities. Also the benefits system is fairly minimal and nothing like the system in the UK so there isn’t so many people about doing nothing in the streets.

Like pp's have said , it's respect. I remember when I visited there seeing a random passerby pick up a few bicycles that had been blown over outside and office building (windy day). Tokyo was truly one of the most amazing places I've visited, would love to return one day.

I wouldn’t either but if they hadn’t got off the plane so fast they’d have burned to death. Making any luggage irrelevant! They weren’t ever going to get that stuff back.
At the end of the day you can replace passports and phones etc
even if it’s a major hassle.

Those people were told to get off without collecting luggage and did as instructed. If that BA plane in vegas had burned faster those idiots collecting stuff would have caused deaths.

Not ok to label someone racist and xenophobic. Honestly why do people think it's ok to tarnish people with these labels to shut down any debate?

I guess they achieve that by paying the cleaners a pittance?

They generally earn at or slightly above minimum wage, which is different per region. So for example, minimum wage in Tokyo is higher than in a rural area.

No one is feitishizing Japan, fgs. It would not be impossible for cities like London and Paris to be litter-free, OP is only interested in why this is. I've found many of the replies on this thread to be really interesting - and then you get the usual sneering "look at you all being dim and thinking Japan is some sort of utopia, well it isn't you know". Literally no one has said it is!

This intellectual grand standing is one of the things that really blights MN.

When we were in Japan earlier in the year, there was a news item about rubbish being left by tourists, a coke can and crisp wrapper..
The Japanese would just never drop rubbish, it's unacceptable over there...especially Tokyo.

Osaka is a bit more messy...

Japan has historically had a very strong social contract. Basically, be a good citizen and the government and your (husband’s) employer will take care of you. The modern version of this harks back to the end of WW2 where they had to essentially start again from scratch. They haven’t really permitted immigration so there is (mostly) a single culture which, rightly or wrongly, helps to facilitate a strong social contract.

It’s definitely under stress now and this has played out in declining marriage & birth rates.

The UK doesn’t have a particularly strong social contract & hasn’t for some time so people don’t feel as invested in their local area. Why would they when they can’t access decent housing, decently paid work, see a doctor in a timely manner etc?

That really surprised me.

Women only got the vote in all of Switzerland in 1990. Maternity leave was 2000ish.

The school system makes it difficult for both parents to work. You might have to take your child to school for 9am and then collect them at 11.00 before returning them at 14.30.

Can’t comment on this. Not country is perfect; but I am referring to the positive things: culture of respect, organisation, cleanliness , safety. It is a pleasure to go out, use public transport. I can’t say the same about London, people eat and drink on public transport, many people don’t care for the public spaces or for other people, litter, dog poop, pee on the public spaces, listen to their mobile without headphones. Many stations are not wash/cleaned, the list goes on.