To be so impressed about how clean Tokyo (Japan)

[Travelfun]

First time in Tokyo and I am so impressed at how clean and organised it is. It is a pleasure to go out, I thought I was going to find a busy, chaotic city.

I live in London and can’t wait to head home when I go into town. I wish we could keep London and other British cities this clean.I think we got lots to learn from the Japanese.

Why can we achieve this cleanliness in London?

That's not really at all as prevalent as people are led to believe. Most Japanese women dress quite modestly. There is a whole anime subculture but it is not really how they would dress day to day.

I read something about Japanese pilots having to have specific training about the fact that it’s okay to use their own initiatives in an emergency.

I went to Tokyo via being as was such a contrast between the two cities

What about the huge amount of sexual assault on the public transport in Japan?
www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-65811838

What's the correlation between this and clean streets? Snowman argument, I'm afraid

Right. So the World Economic Forum Global Gender Gap report 2024 placing Japan 118th out of 146 countries surveyed (on data from across economy, education, politics, and health) is just someone’s subjective opinion, is it?

Try asking a teenager to pick up a crisp packet in the playground. Generally you pick it up yourself or settle in for a long argument.

The plane/luggage thing is interesting to me because quite honestly, on a US/UK airline I’d have absolutely zero faith I’d ever see my bags again - not a big deal in terms of your hand luggage but a massive deal for passport/purse/phone. I’d imagine the Japanese passengers had total confidence they would be reunited with their belongings. On your average UK flight I’d be worried that by following the no bags rule I’d actually made a total mug of myself and would end up stranded with no documents or cash. I’d have no confidence at all that the airline would put themselves out to help me in any way afterwards. I always think it’s this thought, not selfishness, that makes people get their bags from the plane. Years of experience of being treated like shit while travelling while the people you’ve paid to help you do naff all!

We need ride-on street-cleaning machines (the ones with water and hard circular brushes) to wash through our cities every morning at dusk, hose away all the dog piss and shit, human vomit, litter. Actually implement the fines for people who don't pick up after their dogs (ideally, I'd want it that people have to toilet their dogs in their own gardens, NOT on our public streets or parks, and not have them let their dogs cock their legs on our pavements either.). Our Tubes feel so grubby, they need to be sanitised every night, same for the buses. New Tube lines aren't as bad as the old ones, but still. Would all go a long way to making our country feel cleaner. And ban smoking too.

It’s interesting how so many posters mention it’s because of a culture of respect, but the country is misogynistic etc, so where does respect fit in there? Is it better to have clean streets or women treated equally (obviously great if you can have both)

We were in Toyko a few years ago for a holiday and really loved it. DH, who goes out for a run every morning, was so impressed with the state of the streets he took to counting the pieces of litter he saw - the most was two.
And we saw an 'office lady' dart out from behind her desk at reception and run into the plaza outside the building to pick up a cigarette butt.

Why does Japan have such a high suicide rate? I have visited recently and loved everything about it as a visitor.

Of course I am aware of the sexism and the "salary man" culture where men work insanely long hours, go out drinking after work, and leave everything domestic to their wives. I wouldn't want to live in a world like that.

But why the high suicide rates? It's a wealthy country in a temperate climate. I saw almost no homelessness or street drunkeness and I visited 4 large cities. As pp says, all is clean and pleasant, everything works on time, as a very obvious foreigner I didn't clock any racism towards me (if there was any). It makes me feel a bit sad.

^^ This. The cultural mindset is about the collective not the individual.

I love Japan for this. I feel so comfortable there.

More than 40% of London's population was born outside the UK according to 2021 census, whereas foreigners account for 4.7% of the total population in Tokyo in 2022. If this helps...

Loneliness and work pressure are big factors I think.

Not really, that's quite a small minority.

I’d imagine learning to be that piece
in society starts at home and nursery from very young.

Our little ones are taught at their own pace and with a play based learning that it is individualised. However they do learn to follow the routine of the day, sit and
eat nicely with a knife and fork
even if parents say they won’t at home. I think learning in Japan would be an extreme version of this but home and nursery together, then into school. Humans are programmed to follow the expectations of the place they are raised.

Here we are raised to expect to be individuals and follow our own path.
That means our feeling on what we give to society is different to what someone raised in Japan might feel.

There is good and bad in both ways. It would be nice if we had a more society based culture but we would also have to strengthen the family unit again and make children a larger priority so everyone teaches them right from the start.

Japan has basically no immigration which means their culture is more homogenous meaning people will fully understand, be aware of and follow the rules. Their culture also comes with a lot of shame for people who step out of line. They also have a much better economy than the UK and there is very little crime as a result.

The sense of entitlement in the Uk is down to our individualistic, person centred culture, rather than collective responsibility towards each other. Hell, many even dump elder parents in care homes, which were called “old peoples homes”!) so we can carry on with our own life. It’s quite depressing. ,

It's mainly culture, I think - Japanese culture is heavy on respect for others and littering is not respectful. They will also prioritise spending money on keeping places clean.

But also, UK councils simply don't have the money to spend on keeping places clean. The Tories have decimated council budgets, and cleaning the streets is not essential. You see overflowing litter bins all the time - people often do use them, but the rubbish blows out because there aren't enough street cleaners. the work is contracted out and the price goes up. Plus I think since Covid society has changed - some people simply don't care about others anymore. It's like the social contract of decent behaviour has been broken. It's not everyone, by any means, but even 10% of people littering regularly, not picking up dog poo etc will make a big difference.

Oh come on - this is not an immigration issue. The people I see littering and generally behaving disgustingly around here are very much white British.

Again, this is nothing to do with immigration.

Why the hell is a thread about littering attracting the dog whistle racists? 🙄You will be called out, it's not acceptable to make these snide comments.

How do you know it's white British who litters? That's my point. The post sounded like how can 'we' 'British' not do like Japanese do? London is so racially diverse so it's difficult to say it's British issue.

Immigration isn't just about certain groups behaving in certain ways it's about the effect it has on thr whole of a society. A society with more immigration is more fractious and has less social cohesion. Just because people are able to live side by side in the UK and tolerate one another doesn't mean they act like a community or care about each other. The UK is much more individualistic, most people only care about themselves and a few people within their own circle. There is much less sense of community in places with more immigration, that is a fact.

Right... but what difference does immigration make? I don't understand your point. Your first post is suggesting it's foreigners who litter.