TW: Incest - AIBU For not meeting a family member

[Wheatbiscuits]

TW: incest.

On the surface my family was and is highly functional but once you scratch the surface it really isn’t. It is extremely dysfunctional. Apparently there was a decades long standing sexual relationship between two of my siblings which one now calls abuse and the other, naturally the abuser says was consensual. My parents believe the abuser. I absolutely believe it was abuse, he abused me too, but I also separately struggle with how the victim went out of her way to keep a very close relationship with the abuser over the decades when all of this was happening.

There has been a concerted campaign of carpet sweeping across my family and although my other siblings no longer meet with the abuser my parents still do and still talk about him normally with other people as though it has all been forgotten about.

I have stepped back from them all for the sake of my mental health because honestly I now think my family is full of personality disordered people. My parents literally wrote me out the second I called out all of this for the madness it was so they speak about my brother but never mention me except to bad mouth me to people they can get away with doing that with.

Apologies for the long back story but a family member is coming over from abroad to visit my parents and has forwarded details of her trip.

AIBU to ignore the visit.

"but I also separately struggle with how the victim went out of her way to keep a very close relationship with the abuser over the decades when all of this was happening"
That's a common response and a quick Google answers why.
Carry on as you are, not letting them ignore and minimise. If they manage to set up a meeting, don't hold back. It's about you and your mental health.

I can’t imagine why you’d be considering maintaining any kind of relationship with any of them, to be honest.

You don't need to have a relationship with anyone who allowed you to be abused, no matter their degree of relation. You need to protect yourself. Stay away.

"but I also separately struggle with how the victim went out of her way to keep a very close relationship with the abuser over the decades when all of this was happening"

That's a common response and a quick Google answers why.

Is it? Do you mean trauma bond?

She crossed continents to specifically visit with him and vice versa and then didn’t remember any of the abuse until it flooded back. I spoke up about being abused by him a decade before it all fully came out and she warned him that I had done that. Her absolute loyalty has been to him and then subsequently my parents who in my view have also mistreated her.

I kept in close contact with my abuser too OP, (same/incest abuse) for many years. Looking back I can see it was the power they had over me on a very deep, psychological level. I took me many years to cut contact. The abuser was the golden child, I was the scapegoat.

My husband mentioned that my sister had texted him about an upcoming planned visit and I guess it sparked some of the confusion that comes up with this stuff. My immediate response to him was “no way” though. That is what he expects too. It is difficult because he recognises my sister as a victim too so doesn’t want to respond too harshly to her. She is a conflicted victim in this in that she was a victim of my brother but her behaviour has always been harmful to me.

That is very helpful to know. I would say the dynamics were similar in my family of origin to yours. My brothers were golden children my sister and I scapegoated.

@Wheatbiscuits

I was sexually abused as a young teenager by a close family friend. Anybody that saw us together in a typical daily/friend setting say at a party would have never ever noticed that something was going on. If anything I was kind of over friendly and hyper smiley towards him as I was concerned with him escalating and increasing the abuse, I thought if I was nicer to him then he would stop and I was terrified of people finding out and it all being my fault. It is called fawning and it's actually really common in abusive situations. You see it with the women that help men abuse children, on some disturbed level they believe that he will treat them better if they are nice and helpful and for some women they volunteer other people/children for abuse to spare themselves and gain a little power/favour. The dynamics are incredibly complicated.

I come from a similar sort of family, though the person who was abused was my step sibling, not me (I was abused, but not by anyone in the family, though that is treated in a similarly casual way).

I have no relationship at all with my family. They don’t even know where I live. If I had a family member who I wanted to see, even if they saw my other family members, would I see them? Maybe.

Do you want to meet up with this person and maintain an independent relationship with them? If so, I’d consider asking them over for lunch or meeting for a coffee. If they are asking you to join in with a family get together and play happy families, no way.

Your peace and wellbeing come first and i wouldn’t risk that to see anyone. Fwiw, my step sibling (who was abused by her father) is the only one of us who keeps in some form of contact with the family. The rest of us are completely NC. I think the dynamics between abusers and survivors are tricky. I understand why she is. She’s still stuck in the trauma loop. I can have compassion for that, even if I wouldn’t touch it with a barge pole. I wouldn’t want a relationship with her myself.

I changed my name to reply. I was also a victim (my father) and stayed in contact for years but went no contact 5 years ago. Was best decision I made. It's v hard to be objective when it's all you've ever known. If seeing the person will trigger / cause any pain I would feel empowered to stay no contact. I don't think it's always easy and it takes strength but in my view the energy needed to see the person will be more, so better in the long run not to see them

I’m really sorry you have experienced that @WitchyBits it is such a devastating experience.

You see it with the women that help men abuse children, on some disturbed level they believe that he will treat them better if they are nice and helpful and for some women they volunteer other people/children for abuse to spare themselves and gain a little power/favour.

Yes that is what happened with my sister and me. She brought me up to be abused by my brother. I am starting to see why I am less enamoured by her behaviour and have less sympathy towards her than others might. Her responses and behaviour as a victim has always impacted me and it continues to do so now. She latterly stuck up for my parents in a way that makes me look like I’m an unreasonable daughter but there behaviour has been appalling and she wants to come across as a more charitable understanding person but it hasn’t really worked out that way.

Is this family member that is coming to visit your parents one of your siblings ?

I would steer well clear of the visiting relative to be honest, if they are visiting your mum and dad. It sounds like you're best having no contact with anyone in the family as it's so extremely disfunctional. Sorry OP, this has happened in my extended family and the fallout is horrendous 😢

Yes it is my sister.

The terms fawning and trauma bonding have been mentioned, and I think this reaction is very human and happens in everyday life. Its why the bully is often popular, a child will want to cuddle up to the parent after corporal punishment etc. Its the whole keeping your enemies close thing. Unpicking it all is quite interesting and helpful. For what it's worth op, you obviously coped a lot better, so don't let family members gaslight you into playing happy families.

So sorry you ve had similar experiences @dontseethem it has been the toughest thing I’ve ever had to deal with too.

You don't have to see her if you don't want to.

Why does she have your husband's number.

She has my husbands number because this came out about 8 years ago and up until then I thought I had a pretty decent family other than some childhood abuse and bullying from my brothers that I’d completely rationalised and minimised and some pretty self absorbed parents who were all about managing their image. I’m married 20 years so nothing unusual about family having numbers.

She has my number too but my siblings all think I’m mad because of how this has affected me compared to how they’ve all been able to manage it so well so they don’t contact me directly.

Actually the last messages from my other brother were to tell me how resentful and ill a person I’d become since all of this had come out and that I was a complete bully now. He was projecting of course. I had called out that he was enabling ongoing abuse in our family which he was doing. Last time I spoke to any of them was about 5 years ago.

Only you know what you need to do. Be glad that they think you're mad. Better than being like them in all their dysfunction and denial. The whistleblower always cops it, but it sounds like you escaped. Enjoy your peace.

This is so helpful thanks.

Agree with you there. I would rather have to go through what I’ve gone through than to be back where they are all at. The dysfunctional patterns are highly visible in the next generation too. The patterns are obvious if you can see any of them but the are just blind to it all.

She has my number too but my siblings all think I’m mad because of how this has affected me compared to how they’ve all been able to manage it so well so they don’t contact me directly.

If they're all acting as though there's nothing very remarkable to be reacting to, and you're calling the abuse out for what it was, then I would say you're the one who is managing things well, actually.

Take all the space from them that you need, forever if necessary.

I'm sorry that this happened to you.

Thank goodness there is more awareness now than decades ago where parents were permanently in denial that anything so horrendous could happen to their children. Children were ridiculed, chastised, and in some cases made to go to confession for making up stories.
There was an incident when I was growing up where a 13 year old was impregnated and cast out of the family unit. No one knew what became of her, poor child, and all because the parent's could not face the trauma of the scandal.
I'd like to hope and believe such atrocities against children/teens/adults etc are not tolerated any longer.

Finicky I think it is likely still as bad as ever. In Ireland where I live we have a charity called 1 in 4, 1 in 4 because 1 in 4 children suffers from abuse as children and I have no reason to believe in this porn soaked current culture that things have changed much and still in families this stuff is completely taboo. I think whenever you see a post on here with posters accusing other posters of seeing paedophiles around every corner you realise how many people still are completely naïve and in complete denial to the scale of the problem of CSA.

I agree that you are very likely the most emotionally heathy out of all of your family. You have gained perspective and seen it all for what it is. It's definitely worth working through all of this in therapy, I've been having therapy with a to up every year or two for 20 years and it's been life changing.

One of the most important things I realised is that often as the black sheep ( you) breaks free and starts to name the problem, the rest of the herd band together and batten the hatches and return fire as a large single unit against you. When you break it down it's typically led by one or two persons at the top and the rest of them are both victims and also complicit in the abuse themselves ( like your sister). It's in the interests of self preservation that they stay as a unit as the alternative is to face up too the abuse they suffered and also to take personal responsibility for their part in carrying it on, in that they then perpetuated it against others and even provided victims for further abuse. Taking responsibility for horrific behaviour that causes very real trauma to others, That is hard, gruelling work and very very few people ever manage to admit responsibility and very much prefer the " ignorance is bliss" blinkered outlook. It's always somebody else's fault.