TW: Incest - AIBU For not meeting a family member

[Wheatbiscuits]

TW: incest.

On the surface my family was and is highly functional but once you scratch the surface it really isn’t. It is extremely dysfunctional. Apparently there was a decades long standing sexual relationship between two of my siblings which one now calls abuse and the other, naturally the abuser says was consensual. My parents believe the abuser. I absolutely believe it was abuse, he abused me too, but I also separately struggle with how the victim went out of her way to keep a very close relationship with the abuser over the decades when all of this was happening.

There has been a concerted campaign of carpet sweeping across my family and although my other siblings no longer meet with the abuser my parents still do and still talk about him normally with other people as though it has all been forgotten about.

I have stepped back from them all for the sake of my mental health because honestly I now think my family is full of personality disordered people. My parents literally wrote me out the second I called out all of this for the madness it was so they speak about my brother but never mention me except to bad mouth me to people they can get away with doing that with.

Apologies for the long back story but a family member is coming over from abroad to visit my parents and has forwarded details of her trip.

AIBU to ignore the visit.

I asked why she had your husbands number as i think it would be better for your well being if she didn't/hadn't

That is a good point.

Do you know if the visiting sister was also abused? Do you really want to see her and if so, can that be arranged? I’m appalled at the minimising that’s going on. For her to contact your Dh and not you is really weird. Clearly she’s siding with the rest of the family to minimise. Do they think you’re mad for minding?! It’s all very odd.

I genuinely think my mum would be the same if I told her about my brother. I’ve read that 50% of families side with the abuser. It just horrifies me.

I only have one sister, yes she was badly abused by our brother. Far worse than I was.

We haven’t spoken in 5/6 years she sends voice messages to my husband’s phone for Xmas, her Godson’s (my son’s) birthday.

She was instrumental in the minimisation that happened in the family. She thinks the only problem is the abuser brother, but he really isn’t our parents behaviour from the minute they found out when I told them many years before her stuff came out has been appalling. She makes excuses for why they couldn’t possibly be expected to face up to it but in reality they have always been disconnected from their children, self absorbed and extremely focused on their image, they are also both deeply misogynistic and that has been part of the problem that enabled my brother’s behaviour. At one stage she told me her therapist tried to broach the stuff about our parents with her but she just left the session because it was too painful for her. She is completely in denial.

I don't suppose the abuser was ever reported/charged/went to prison.

have you had / do you have therapy/counselling ?

i think I would be going ever lower contact with the whole lot of them, your husband is your family now

it's ok that he realises that your sister is/was a victim too - but how she chooses to deal with it is her choice/problem and not your responsibility...
and i think it is unfair that she contacts your husband it makes him piggy in the middle if you know what I mean.

He moved from Ireland to the UK (apologies from Ireland for sending that level of shit your direction). Then he moved abroad so while he has been reported, he has never been charged. After seeing how family courts dealt with him in his divorce when this stuff came out first it showed just how fucked up courts are in dealing with this type of thing anyway. His ex was completely and utterly fucked over. She brought up the abuse in relation to child contact and it had absolutely no impact.

Yes I had excellent therapy thankfully.

Your sister certainly is a victim, yes, but as you say - she has harmed you. Someone can be both a victim and an abuser, and the fact that she was a victim doesn't cancel out the fact that she's an abuser. Plus, you are not responsible for 'fixing' your sister or the rest of your family and you should not feel in the slightest bit guilty about cutting them all off. You are stronger than they are; you have escaped. And you can break this dysfunctional cycle.

I think it would be healthier all round if your husband blocked your sister and you stopped all contact. I understand why he doesn't want to respond harshly to her, but at this point, I think you need to put yourself first and take every step you can to stop this sort of thing from resurfacing again. It's not helping you to have messages being relayed to you from someone who harmed you so appallingly and on such a fundamental level, and who still minimises and dismisses the horrific things you went through.

I'm so sorry you've had to go through this awful experience. I honestly think you would feel a lot lighter and happy if you made a complete break from your family, but I do understand that this is easier said than done.

I'm so sorry that you suffered sexual abuse at the hands of someone who is supposed to love and protect you but also sorry at the prolonged psychological abuse meted to you by your family. They are delusional, weak, cruel and to scapegoat you like they have is disgusting quite frankly.

But you @Wheatbiscuits have shown bravery, strength and fortitude by refusing to be gaslit by your entire family. And it seems like you have built your own happy little family and thankfully have been able to live a life where you no longer have to lie and play a role in order to fit into the fucked-up narrative they have chosen to perpetuate.

Someone upthread explained the fawning aspect of abusive relationships and it was an excellent post. If you want to explore this further in therapy then it may be an idea to do so. As far as your sister's visit goes I simply wouldn't engage and I'd actively encourage your husband to block her number. The invitation to meet her will, I assume, be contingent on you playing happy, well functioning family and I think it would be very unhealthy for you to play into that, unwillingly as it may, to any degree. You have been five years no contact and I would have concerns that meeting your sister would be picking at a scab that is healing nicely. Might I suggest a few top-up therapy sessions at the moment to process her invitation and what it means so if you decide not to meet her (and I hope you don't) that it won't cause you to second guess yourself and worry if you made the right decision.

You have broken free of what is a toxic and deeply disturbing dynamic. You don't owe any of them anything.

Take care xx

I must admit I feel a bit sorry for your sister. You say she was abused more so than you. She’s a damaged person acting in a damaged way. If I could I’d look and see if I feel I could have a minor relationship with her. What works for you has to take priority, of course.

@Wheatbiscuits

Honestly, you need to cut the lot of them out of your life like a cancer. Not one of them is mentally healthy for you and I truly believe you'll have more peace in your life without them. Go NC with them all, parents and siblings alike. And have your DH block them, too.

In the '70s I went to (US) high school with a set of male/female twins. The female twin committed suicide in my sophomore year (they were juniors). We were all totally shocked and could think of no reason why she would do that. Once her brother returned to school we all learnt that she had admitted to him that she was being raped by their stepfather. When she (and her brother) told their mother she was called a liar, and that even if it were true, then she was a slut who must be enticing him. And that if she told the authorities her mother would deny it all and kick them both out of the house. Seeing no way out and fearing that she'd drag her brother down with her, she chose to end her own life. Her brother was never the same. Things would be different these days, but 50 years ago the authorities were loath to do anything unless a parent came forward with the child.

You are brave and courageous to have spoken out. Continue to do so and speak your truth to anyone, especially those who malign you or repeat your family's nasty words. Your sister, as a victim, must deal with this in her own way but you don't have to have her in your life whilst she does. The rest of your family are cowards for choosing not to act on your words. They know you spoke the truth, they're just doing what is most convenient for them and what 'saves' face' in the community.

This has blown my very naive, sheltered little mind. I cannot imagine a situation like this especially where you've mentioned women helping men abuse their children. I just can't. Absolutely unthinkable to me.

After a thread full of people suggesting cutting contact fully with her and that being my gut feeling from the start I might have to give you her number instead to contact her —sorry that is just my sense of humour, I’m just joking—albeit I do agree with you and that is where this thread likely came from because I do feel very sorry for her too.

No I have definitely decided to cut her off fully, her behaviour is too destructive towards me and like the rest of our family members it caused me so much psychological damage I think I have to go with my gut. I was ill for years over the treatment I got.

There is a very large amount of women who turn the other way when the husband abuses their children in all kinds of damaging ways. My mother joined in on occasions.

How awful I'm sorry. I cannot imagine ever ever ever choosing anyone above my kids - no man would ever go above them even though I love the bones of my husband. My kids are my absolute priority even above myself.

Yes this is one of those lightbulb moments for me on here and the other post explaining fawning really well too. I have read mountains about these concepts but it really struck me for the first time on here that the fawner prioritises the abuser even to the cost of other relationships. I’ve seen it in multiple scenarios because unluckily for us DH’s family is unfortunately highly abusive too but I hadn’t really fully understood this point. People in abusive relationships often prioritise the abusive relationships and the abuser over healthy relationships.

Yes, my overriding feeling is one of sympathy for both the OP and her sister. But something feels uncomfortable about the focus on the sister's behaviour (which is not to excuse it but is clearly the survival mechanism of a traumatised person) rather than the brother and the parents who hold much more responsibility.

I'm not saying that the sister is a healthy person to be around and the OP has every right to protect herself from further harm but it almost seems the sister is the new scapegoat, at least on this thread I think it's unfair of posters to claim the OP is stronger and healthier when she has explained the sister experienced worse abuse. No one knows how they would react until in the situation.

My family is similar btw - abuse, denial, cover up, scapegoating, naming me crazy for attempting to speak out. Neither my brother or mother will ever have any real empathy for the abuse I suffered. They still have my abusers photos round the house. These sorts of families are extremely complex and it can take decades to unpick the toxic dynamics and our own unconscious need to replay them.

Anyway, I am sorry for what you have been through, OP. You deserve a happy life without toxicity and if your sister brings you nothing but that then I think you have every right to cut contact. Good luck.

I was abused. Step parent. He started the physical grooming with one of my close friends.

At that point my suffering was still a hellish secret I told no one about.

Anyway friend comes to me saying she finds SP creepy and he tried things with her

I felt fear down to the pit of my stomach. Cold stone fear. Fear it would all come out. Fear of my world imploding completely.

I'm ashamed to say I called her a liar, knowing it was true and furthermore, made sure everyone else who would have believed her knew she was a liar too. I was a bitch.

She stopped coming to my house and I lost a friend.

She was telling the truth. But I was only 15 and terrified, completely terrified.

I think that comes about because the thread is about whether I should meet up with that sister so that is why the emphasis is on her. I would never consider meeting any other members of my family in any circumstance.

That's not to say you should have your sister in your life. PP was correct you can be a victim and an abuser or involuntary aider & abetter all at the same time.

I hope you both find healing. It's over 30 years for me and I'm still struggling. It's also progressive. You can sometimes suddenly see the light and realise you need to cut someone off who shouldn't be in your life, or get some new insight into how you react to certain things now is connected to what you went through.

If you require no contact with family to accomplish it. I am not usually a person who recommends no contact with family easily, but in this case if that's what you need, absolutely do it.

I’m so sorry to read your experience @EatCrow it is awful stuff to go through.

That is so sad @NameChangeUser183794639 and it is really helpful to understand the compromised situations abusers put their victims in. My SIL was absolutely raging with me about not telling her about the abuse I experienced to protect her children but her own husband had witnessed the abuse between my brother and sister and he was a lot older than I was when I was experiencing it. She never made that link because it was easier to blame my sister and me. It explodes relationships.

You were still a child and a traumatised one. Despite it not being your intention, you probably saved your friend from more abuse and the problems of reporting it. As an adult it's easy to see the right course to take.

It does. And it's totally unfair for your SIL to have put responsibility on your shoulders as the victim, especially when, as you say her husband observed but said nothing.

To me all your family member's reactions show that you are considered last in this awful situation.

I found writing that unexpectedly emotional and feel a bit like crying, even though in hindsight, as you say I'm an adult and know the power dynamics were so outsized and I had zero support from anyone around me, but you have comforted me with the unexpected thought and fresh angle, that at least in my bitchiness she did save herself by staying away completely from me, and him. Thanks for that xx

Awww @NameChangeUser183794639 that is such a lovely post. You made me very emotional reading that. You are compromised so much when you are abused, for me I felt like I was wrapped so tightly like a knotted spool of thread with thorns. Trying to unpick the knots is so painful. It sounds like you might have just unpicked one more knot there. ❤️❤️❤️