To ask if you couldn't imagine leaving your baby and then young dc with strangers?

[A2J]

As in nursery/childminder etc?
I was OK once they could talk but before that I couldn't have left them with anyone except very close friends (female) or family.

It probably stems from my own childhood although any abuse I experienced was when older. Weird friends of my parents.

Luckily I was bolshy and stuck up for myself. More than I can say for my parents.

@PeonyBlushSuede absolutely agree.

Every parent I know prioritises their children above all else. Those who work and those who don't!

REPEAT AFTER ME. Poverty is the biggest indicator of poor outcomes for children.

Being a working parent - mother or father doesn’t mean you are a less caring parent

Just wanted to take issue with people saying that going back to work means parents are not 'prioritising' their children.

There has been major research showing benefits to social skills, self-regulation and cognitive abilities for children who attended nurseries compared to those who didn't.

People who return to work don't love their children any less, or prioritise them less. I returned to work but my children are my number one priority.

Having children in nursery also allows one on one time with a newborn baby.
It helps reduce gender inequality. The latest research shows the gender pay gap opens up when women have children. It's actually quite small before.
It has better outcomes for the individual child.
They can do much more exciting activities than is feasible at home.
They have a broader group of adults they have bonds with, rather than it all focussed on mum.
The financial impact of becoming a SAHM is also much higher where the woman is the main earner.

Leaving your child with anyone but you is hard and can give feelings of guilt. But it's healthy for them to have a bigger circle of safe adults.

OP you mention friends who use nursery as they don't enjoy being parents. I know of people who are SAHM because they don't enjoy their jobs, nothing to do with prioritising their child. But I definitely wouldn't tar all SAHM with this brush. Everyone should be able to choose what's right for their family and what's important to them.

Why?

Should children, and in particular girls, not have positive male role models and male figures they can trust?

Just to add - OP it does sound like you are listening to other people's experiences and viewpoints. It sounds like you have a lot of love for your children and you're entitled to make your own decisions. I personally think that if a child is loved and listened to other things like childcare etc don't make much impact!

Women can have it all but not at the same time.

Why ever not? Of course women can have children and careers at the same time. It's a perfectly normal thing to do.

@MaryWelly

OP you mention friends who use nursery as they don't enjoy being parents. I know of people who are SAHM because they don't enjoy their jobs, nothing to do with prioritising their child.

A totally valid point. To be perfectly frank, if I'd had a mundane job which I didn't enjoy rather than a profession, I would have been far more likely to jack it in and stay at home. That wouldn't be any measure of how much I loved my child though!

And to go back to the OP, some mothers clearly feel so unable to leave their children that they move heaven and earth to avoid it; as with the OP it may be the impact of some childhood trauma of their own, but whatever the reason, it's not a measure of loving your child more, it's a reaction to your own feelings and needs.

Why are women who are so snotty and superior about women working rather than staying at home so forgiving of their husbands, who have to work to allow them their superior lifestyle?

Can’t imahine why it’s different.

Agree.

Why not?

I did both. Oldest two went to a childminder from 18months ish while I worked part time. My pay didn’t go up at all but the fees did so for child number three I quit and haven’t been back since (he’s 6). Can’t say it’s better or worse for any of them. Mine loved their childminder and the youngest loved being home. Kids adapt.

My childminder was a neighbourhood lady. I had met her when DS was a baby and knew her for almost a year when he started with her. I'd seen her out with kids she looked after, or sometimes her own DC, chatted at the church toddler group and seen her at the playground. She'd held DS a few times and always talked to us. She didn't feel like a stranger.

The reality for most people is that some of childcare is needed to work & keep a roof over the family's heads.

Oh and i absolutely love spending time with my kids but i love to see them well fed, clothed, in a warm home etc and for all of that we need to earn money.

In the past children would in many societies have been cared for by "the village" and minded by friends, neighbours, relatives or more likely older siblings not that old themselves. It would have been unusual for women to be able to have dedicated themselves almost entirely to child rearing for years on end

Absolutely.@IpsyUpsyDaisyDoos One wonders what that poster would do if encountering a male primary or pre school teacher. They are around! If you think all men are predators.of small children then you probably do need therapy!

We need for there to be more male nursery staff, children’s nurses, early years teachers - men can be equally good at caring professions.

This absolutely. My OH quit his job when youngest was one and moved to get a more family friendly role. He was very clear with his employers why he was leaving. If more men demanded flexibility and shared childcare then policies would be more family friendly.

I did prefer living in a small house and living within our means. But if a single mother had to work that's totally understandable

But what about the huge areas of this country where to live in anything beyond a shared house, you need two incomes? Letting agents and mortgage providers have income tests, they won't let you stretch yourself and "live within your means". Rent in the south east can easily be £1500 a month and many agents won't rent to you if that's more than 40% of your income after tax.

Horrible post OP. Made me feel like crap.

Look at life
Can they trust them?

Really glad my children benefited from great female and male role models

My DD was left with strangers (nursery and childminders) because I had very little choice. I had her at 17, and we lived in pretty extreme poverty. I had no choice but to better our prospects with study and work. My own family were actually not fit to take care of her, so it was my only choice. I feel quite extreme guilt that was our life, and I had no choice, but it was the making of us.

Middle DS, has only ever been cared for by a friend who is a CM and his grandparents, or his sister or us as his parents, I feel really comfortable with that. I was SA at a similar age as DS is now, and I'm feeling less comfortable, especially given that no one was ever going to care for him until he was verbal..and it will be a long time until he is

Not going back to work wasn't an option for me, even with nursery fees which dh paid my hourly rate made it worthwhile financially. Working isn't for me just about money, we knew two in childcare even if it was mornings would be expensive but I was able to add to my pension and the continuity had helped my career. Now I earn much more and that benefits my family. We were able to get a mortgage because of this and I saved a deposit on my earnings. My mil was kind enough to volunteer to have my older two for two afternoons a week (she fed them lunch and then down for a 2 hour nap) for 2 years. She was not up to having them all day so I did use nursery for the mornings. It was hard to leave them especally dd1 who was 10months old and not crawling at the time. She wasn't willing to help beyond this. I haven't needed to use childcare with my 3rd child but dh is further on in his career now and was able to compress his hours. I work around him and we feel this is in the best interests of dd2.

I know of plenty of sahms who have family support and send their kids to the grandparents for sleepovers every week and use babysitters regularly. I don't do this, work for me is a necessity but otherwise I don't choose to spend extended period of time away from them. It doesn't mean I love my children any more or less than they do.

Ridiculous thing to say. My daughter's keyworker as a young toddler was a man and she adored him. My husband taught primary school for a while and he was everyone's favourite teacher.

Can they trust women either then? If we're just looking at "life"?

So many of the baby deaths or abuse cases that you hear about may be at the hands of men, but their mothers did nothing about it. They knew. They participated.

If I look at my own life, my father and my uncles looked after me regularly. And they are amazing men. They showed me what men are supposed to be. And that meant I wouldn't settle for less than the same.

At the same time I have an incredibly strong circle of women around me in my family. They won't put up with poor treatment, from anyone but definitely not men. They stand up for themselves and the ones they love. They're independent but part of a team.

That's what kids need. They need to see female role models who don't accept shit and make their own way. And male ones who are gentle and loving and protective and build them up in the world. And for those two role models to be able to come together as a team.

What they don't need is mother's who choose partners over them. Or parents who are too scared of the world to let them experience any of it. Or mothers who can't even be certain that their father is able to look after them.

@IpsyUpsyDaisyDoos 👏🏼 👏🏼