To tell my friend she's not acting in the best interests of her DD

[Rosiecidar]

A friend of mine has an adult daughter, nearly 30. DD. DD lives at home and went to uni locally and has never lived away, never had a boyfriend and barely any friends. DD used to be good friends with my DD from.school but that's drifted. My friend is pretty negative to men in a romantic context since her divorce 15 years ago and been steadfastly single. My friend does everything with her daughter, as in takes her daughter to everything she wants to do, occasionally seeing other friends. For holidays she goes away with her daughter maybe 3 x a year.A few months ago DD told me she didn't want to go away with her mum anymore and wanted to do her own thing, but when she told my friend she was planning a trip my friend said she would go as well. It's none of my business but I feel so annoyed with my friend for holding her DD back and not encouraging her to get out and enjoy life instead it seems my friend would be happy she spends her life as a companion. It just feels so wrong. My daughter used to be good friends with the DD but isn't any more as she said they have nothing in common ...I have tried talking about it but my friend just normalises it. It makes me annoyed and I feel my friend is self centered AIBU ?

The change has to come from the daughter

she needs to set her boundaries as you friend, her mum is too self centred too

you could possibly have a chat with her about this (the dd) but this will be all she knows and will likely need to build on her own confidence before doing this

she may also have to some extent a life and friends that her mum and others are not aware of

I think if you were inclined to speak to your friend- and prepared for defensiveness- I'd say something like "I can see how hard you work at being close to your daughter and having a good relationship- however I worry for both of you that closeness doesn't allow a lot of room for anyone else which limits your support- I worry what would happen for both of you if the other wasn't available." It's letting her know that her intentions are good (which they very likely are) but that the consequences might be negative for both of them.

It depends on the dynamic they have. my mother lives with me, she doesn't have her own friends and relies on me for any social interaction, and she also used to get really shirty if i went and did stuff with my own friends.

I had to sit her down and tell her how unfair she was being. I have my own friends, my own social life, and i refused to be guilt-tripped into being her companion to the detriment of my own social life.

She admitted she was lonely, that she was jealous, and that she felt hard-done-by whenever i went away for weekends without her.

I imagine your friend probably feels somewhat the same whenever her daughter expresses a need to go do her own thing, to the point the DD feels bad.

I think a conversation with both of them might pay here, encourage the DD to do what she wants, and perhaps offer to spend more time with your friend so she's less reliant on her daughter for friendship.

I was once the DD but then I met my now DH at 26. My mother hated the fact I had a boyfriend, she was very rude to him but sung his praises to everyone to look 'innocent'.

We have a very strained relationship now, looking back she's tried to control and manipulate me most of my life but I've stood back now. I'm sure the DD will be unhappy in the current situation, as was I and the mother oblivious...only to her own need.

Why are you being so aggressive?

@Thepurplecar while your points have merit and definitely something for OP to keep in mind, I haven’t seen much in the OP’s posts to really suggest that anyone here is neurodivergent or autistic?

OP I think a PP’s idea of you going away with the mum to give the daughter a reprieve is a good one! Or you could just constantly encourage the daughter to do things independently in conversation with them both? Never have a serious sit down with the mum that could offend her but just obliviously constantly plant the seed of independence and give the daughter a bit of back up to the general idea? Like if mum says she wants to see X place you could say, “oh I’ll go with you! How about we go together and let daughter have her own adventure?” That sort of thing. Be a bit annoying rather than create a serious dramatic moment.

This sums things up very well. Posters saying the OP has to intervene for the sake of the daughter - you’re assuming a) that the mother will listen to the OP when she hasn’t listened to anyone else and b) that the mother genuinely doesn’t understand that what she’s doing isn’t healthy. I agree with @Vabenejulio - she knows and either doesn’t care or is in denial.

Ok, sounds like you know more about this child and their needs than the parent which seems odd regardless of how close you are. In any case, it's very rare that undermining a parent benefits the child. That's not what support looks like.

There are many disabilities as you rightly say, some obscure others. Neurodivergence cannot be ruled out at 4 years old especially in a child with other complex needs but there are many conditions and combinations of conditions that may result in selective mutism. Unless you're accusing the mother of the severest forms of abuse, a child's relationship with their parent does not cause mutism. Is it not wonderful that the child has a relationship with the mother in which he is able to open up to her? Perhaps others could learn something there about making the child and his mother feel safe and accepted.

Poor girl. Now she will need a life coach because she hasn’t learned how to deal with/identify people who are out to take advantage of her. Keep a close eye on her and help steer her away from untrustworthy people.

Do you think if you said something the mother would take any notice? I don't think she would - she would have a reason why it is best to do it the way she has been doing and would continue. Unless the daughter says please help me - all you can do is to encourage her to speak up for herself.
I think the only way the friend would listen is if you really spelt it out to her - even then she would probably not agree and would mark the end of the friendship.

I am a mother with a very codependent DD (15) who is autistic. I am worried reading this that I am being unhelpful but she is very anxious and has OCD and needs me to help soothe and regulate. She won’t go to the shop on her own, I have suggested it and she managed it once when I had covid, but isn’t confident enough usually. I feel cruel to push her to do things independently when she seems so frightened and vulnerable. We holiday together as I can help her to travel and I think it enriches her life. I don’t know how she will develop to be more independent from me though because she doesn’t seem to want to. I know it’s my job to achieve this for her but I genuinely don’t know how to :(

Don’t worry, she’s only 15. I think the best method is gradual with support, then slowly dialling it back. A bit like when they start going to school by themselves- first you take them all the way in, then you say goodbye at the gate, then at the corner of the road, until you say bye at the front door of your home.

In most situations I would say keep your nose out - the friend’s daughter should be able to speak to her mum herself to make her feelings known. However I do feel with this kind of intense dependent relationship with little or no self confidence she is not equipped to do so without support.

People often post about helping to support or enable a friend or relative escape from a controlling partner who has eroded their self-esteem. Why do people not realise an adolescent who has spent the subsequent 15 years of their life unnaturally enmeshed with a parent may need a but of help too? It may not be an unkind relationship but it’s apparently not what she wants and she clearly doesn’t have the life skills to sort it out herself. The young woman has obviously spoken to the OP about her problems already so there is an issue and it’s not just the OP projecting her interpretation of the circumstances.

If the OP is willing to speak up she should talk to the young woman beforehand to get permission and accept she may be blowing up her friendship in doing so.

Sorry if already suggested, could you not try and arrange some trips with the mum and yourself? Normalise some separation that way?

Your friend sounds like a classic type of overbearing narcissistic mother, these kind of mothers never let their children become independent. According to literature children of overbearing narcissistic main care givers never manage to individuate as toddlers and hence can never completely separate as adults. Unfortunately there’s nothing you can say to your friend that could undo the damage that’s already been done to her adult child’s confidence.

It is up to the daughter what she does, yes when people see a very serious situation they should step in or report to the police but there is lots of threads on here about people interfering when they think they know best?

It becomes more about them trying to fix something in themselves rather than actually helping the other person

OP can't your DD maybe invite the DD out for a coffee, a long needed catch up?

You're right to be worried OP but as others have said, hard to help.

I know a 52 year old man who is controlled by his mother. He's been conditioned from very young that mummy knows best. It's sad to see and not as easy as telling him to stand up for himself.
He hasn't married, she tags along to every holiday and plans outings on his leave days.
He feels guilty if he doesn't include her as she would sulk and give him the silent treatment.
It's just the two of them and she knows perfectly well what she's doing as she's an intelligent retired lawyer.
He is equally intelligent but lacks the social skills and confidence to be his own person.
She pushed him up the academic route and now feels he owes her his success.

It's a form of abuse.

Sounds like co/dependency to me. The daughter needs to speak to the mum properly about it if she doesn’t want to be in that position in 20 years’ time. My two single friends (am in my 50s) seem to have their mums as companions. I can see how it happens as everyone needs a ‘person’, be it spouse or parent/child.

She will have been conditioned, controlled and manipulated by her mum.
Adult children can be subject of abuse like financial, coercive control.

Does she work?

Your right to be worried

Just to add and to thank everyone for the advice. I have gently said, do you think it would help if DD had some experience living away from home even for a short period? Would she benefit from going on holiday? And it's agreed with or ignored or for holidays "I wanted to go there as well so we are going together" but even if there's agreement nothing happens or there's an excuse " oh well it's no point very expensive to live away from home" . I think the only thing is to perhaps gently continue. I do think it puts a strain on our friendship because obviously I would always ask about DD in the same way that I would ask any friend about their child and everything is a garden of roses, perhaps it is for now.

I've known Mums like this, who make their daughters their best friends and they do everything together and it becomes the DD's whole world. It's lovely to have such a close bond but kids need to have the freedom to find their own lives. It seems she's ready to break free, unfortunately the Mum will likely feel hurt and there will a lot of upset. Xx