It’s becoming unfashionable to have kids

[Housebuyingfamily]

Birth rates are on the floor which people frame as, people would have more kids were it not for the cost of them or climate change, etc etc. But I feel like it’s now more than this. As if we have a global child-free culture that’s growing every day and it’s becoming increasingly “unfashionable” to have kids, even looked down upon.

Why are you sad other people are living their lives how they want?

It’s like when I was in a club, dancing, having a great time and someone asked me what drugs I was on. I said none, they kept going on at me at how amazing it was and how much I was missing out and how I’d be having an even better time if I was on them.

I was never interested but a year later the FOMO got to me. I tried it twice…guess what, it was crap, I enjoyed the music and overall experience much less than usual! Because….I know myself better than other people know me. I’m not them. I could bang on about skiing is amazing, but one of my friends hates it. That doesn’t personally upset me!

Why do you think that?

I couldn't care less if someone hated the idea of being child-free and thought it was awful.

Thanks for good discussion - I have to get back to doing other things!

Having a child is definitely hard. But surely you can see the positive side too?

As someone that doesn't want kids I cannot see a single positive which is precisely why I don't want them.

You can't imagine loving a child, taking joy in their development?

If I gave birth I might love the child but ultimately I think I'd resent it more because I didn't want one.

Were there many younger children in your life growing up? I had a lot of younger cousins and my sister is seven years younger than I am so I had a sort of preview into what it's like to experience the development of another person. I couldn't wait to experience it with my own children. For me (aware not everyone is bothered!) it's one of the most thrilling and interesting things to see someone go from being a tiny helpless newborn into a person with thoughts and opinions who can walk and talk. It's genuinely amazing. The fact that that person's my child makes it even more amazing. I do get the horses for courses argument - my friend's a doctor and thinks it's the best thing ever. I couldn't imagine anything worse.

I'm the eldest of 6 and have lots of younger cousins so I know exactly what it takes to raise a child which is why I don't want one.

Given that viewpoint I admit it makes me sad and sort of baffled when people just list the superficial negatives.

This is patronising and I've heard it all my life! I've always known I didn't want kids and I'd get the "you'll feel differently when you're older speech" I don't. I have absolutely no desire or urge nothing. The negatives aren't superficial.
If you know you won't enjoy night feeds, nappies, school runs, being screamed at, driving to activities, pretending to be interested when they put on a show for you then why would I have a child.
Don't feel sad for me, I have a fantastic free life and I can do whatever I want when I want.

I can understand why other people don't want children, but I do react when people imply (or state outright) that having children is awful. It's not for everyone but it's certainly not awful any more than a child free life is awful.

For someone that doesn't want a child the thought of having one is awful just like the thought of not having one is awful for the people that want them. My child free life is fantastic because I chose it.

I suppose I was interested in the idea that some people genuinely think parenting is just totally terrible and can't imagine any positives, as it seems odd to me. If I said I can't imagine any positives to being child free I think I'd have my arse handed to me!

Again not a single positive why would I have a child I don't want just because there might be a small positive at some point in raising it that I can't think of before I commit to having it? Do you think it's fair on the child to have parents that didn't want it in the first place, potentially damage it for life with your resentment then no doubt end up low contact as an adult because you were a shit parent?

I've seen previous threads on here were child free are called selfish because apparently all we care about is extra money and extra sleep when really we are selfless because I can't thing of anything more selfish than raising a child you know in your heart you don't want just because it's the normal thing to do.

edit to make quotes bold

As in when there's more and not less. There are a lot of people outside the bubble of mumsnetter's awareness that exist believe it or not.

No I answered the question, as we're supposed to do. You know, like you did. The first lot of responders didn't wait around for a thread to appear, they answered the question with their thoughts, as they were asked them.

Maybe in certain areas. Like parts of London.

Definitely not in my area. In fact I felt like a freak of nature when I couldn't have children.

I didn’t have kids because 1. we’re over populated, 2. Many men are shit and I didn’t want to end up a single mum or reliant on a man, and 3. I was abused myself as a child so I don’t think I’d make a great mother. ‘Fashion’ has nothing to do with it and it’s fairly insulting to suggest women are making such a huge choice based on a ‘trend’.

For anyone else that likes research-led learning:

Maternal Education, Changing Family Circumstances, and Children's Skill Development in the United States and UK

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5857959/

The key factors in raising successful children are; high maternal education, steady and high income, stable family structures especially with both parents, good maternal mental health, regular and consistent exposure to new and positive experiences.

You're missing the point. For some people, it would be 'awful'. It isn't awful for you. Why are you struggling to accept that for some it would be awful?
Is there something you really don't like doing but someone else does? Maybe you've never done it, but you know you don't want to. Is your list of reasons really going to be, 'well, this is great and that would be great but despite all that, I just don't want to.'? No. You are going to say, for eg, 'I don't want to go skydiving because I don't want to plummet to the ground from a great height at speed with only a bit of cloth to save me.'. You are NOT going to say, 'well, the feeling of freedom, the wind through my hair etc sounds great but it isn't for me,' are you?
This thread posits a reason why people don't want children. Fashion. So, people have come here to give other reasons why they don't want children.
I think people are struggling to understand what is 'sad' and 'baffling' about giving the logical reasons why they don't want to do something. Of course it's going to be negative, because they don't want to do it. I think skydiving would be awful. Because I don't see the positives. If I did, I would have different reasons for not doing it and would say so.
We don't do this about anything else, do we? (Although dog ownership is getting close these days). Having children would be awful to someone who doesn't like them and doesn't want them. Nothing 'baffling' about it.

It's an extremely defensive crabs in a bucket mentality shared by a few in this thread. Often people who have literally not achieved anything else in life other than their children so cannot fathom wanting anything else. And a defensiveness of "well I raised a family on nothing and scrimped and saved and I'm proud of that" who don't seem to understand that their lives look a bit shit to anyone that knows better.

The thing is @WanOvaryKenobi (great name) I wouldn't actually say anyone else's life is shit for them. It just might be shit for me. My life probably looks shit to someone else. Can't have kids, no stellar career, no huge pots of money. MY life isn't awful for me. But someone else, who wouldn't want it for themselves is going to list the negatives from their perspective, if that's not what they want to do.

Fair point, well made.

I don't think you're being honest with yourself.

I can't imagine not having my children, but if I launched right now into a diatribe about how awful life must be for childfree people and listing all the reasons I think it would be terrible, you and I both know it would cause upset.

It's fine with me for people to have or not have children and I have never once got involved in anyone else's choices, but it's not socially acceptable to take a life choice that someone else has made and start crowing about how you can't imagine anything worse and all the reasons you'd hate to have their life, even if you do add the caveat "for ME". It's just rude.

But the AIBU is about birth rates dropping through the floor and why that might be. People are answering with reasons why that might be. One of those reasons for some is the negatives of child raising.
You'd have a point if this was a post about someone's joy in parenting, but it isn't. It's, in effect, asking the question, 'why aren't people having children' just worded somewhat differently. People are answering the question from their perspective. It's also pretty rude to be told your reasoning and perspective about a choice you made that you shared on a post about why people make that choice is 'sad' and 'baffling'. Don't you think?

It's fine with me for people to have or not have children and I have never once got involved in anyone else's choices, but it's not socially acceptable to take a life choice that someone else has made and start crowing about how you can't imagine anything worse and all the reasons you'd hate to have their life, even if you do add the caveat "for ME". It's just rude.

But this isn't a thread about how wonderful parenting is, it's a thread about why less people are choosing to have children. For many people, one of those reasons is because it sounds awful to be a parent.

I don't know why so many parents on here see that as a personal insult

I think one reason that people never seem to acknowledge is that all species top out eventually, why can’t we just accept its nature at work? More and more women don’t have the instinct or drive to have kids anymore. I posted above my reasons, but I maybe missed the biggest one actually, which is I’ve never had the desire for kids, that hormone or whatever it is just didn’t kick in.

It is socially acceptable in the context of an internet thread where someone has essentially asked “why don’t people want kids”. I agree that if I randomly went up to you and said “your life seems awful to me” that would be very rude and unacceptable.

I would never comment on anyone’s looks to them, and think everyone’s body is everyone’s to do what they want with, but if someone posted on here saying “why don’t you want size GG boobs like Katie Price’s” I would answer “because I think they look awful and I don’t want that”.

I don't think you're being honest with yourself.

I can't imagine not having my children, but if I launched right now into a diatribe about how awful life must be for childfree people and listing all the reasons I think it would be terrible, you and I both know it would cause upset.

It's fine with me for people to have or not have children and I have never once got involved in anyone else's choices, but it's not socially acceptable to take a life choice that someone else has made and start crowing about how you can't imagine anything worse and all the reasons you'd hate to have their life, even if you do add the caveat "for ME". It's just rude.

I think it's rude that people have posted that they feel "sad" that people can't find a reason to want a child! How patronising.

They keep trying to find a reason why we don't want one "is it because you haven't had much experience with children" or "can't you see any positives" we repeatedly clarify our choices but it's not good enough, they won't accept that we just don't want them. What can we do other than list all the reasons why we don't want them?

If it's our truth then why is it rude or why would a parent be offended by it? If they are happy with their life choices then it shouldn't bother them that someone lists reasons they don't want kids. If you listed all the reasons you think it'd be shit not having kids I wouldn't care because I'm happy with my choice. The only thing I object to is being called selfish for choosing not to have one (because I prefer extra money or extra sleep) when really it'd be selfish to have a kid I didn't want and potentially give it a poor life.

edit to hold quote

It is socially acceptable in the context of an internet thread where someone has essentially asked “why don’t people want kids”. I agree that if I randomly went up to you and said “your life seems awful to me” that would be very rude and unacceptable.

Yes, exactly.

There's a difference between expressing an opinion on a thread about why people don't want children, and actually approaching a parent in real life and telling them you think they've made a huge mistake and that their life looks awful. I don't think anyone would do the latter, surely?

But this entire thread is about why people don't have kids, so of course it's going to be mostly filled with negatives.

In my opinion the defensiveness comes from people who have kids because "it's what you do".

Whereas anyone who has considered being child free, or gone through fertility treatment, or decided on having children later when they reach a certain lifestyle has had to actively think about it and often have a clearer view of the pros and cons.

I can't imagine not having my children, but if I launched right now into a diatribe about how awful life must be for childfree people and listing all the reasons I think it would be terrible, you and I both know it would cause upset.

You’ve misunderstood me. If you went into a diatribe about how awful life would be for you if you were childfree, I don’t think there’d be upset - because that’s subjective. What you’ve described is an objective belief (how awful life must be for other childfree people). That’s where people get upset, because you’re dictating what their own lives are like.

I don’t hold an objective belief that life must be awful for parents - I think that life would be awful for me.

The PP is trying to get the childfree to acknowledge objective positive factors in having children and getting frustrated when they insist that subjectively (ie. to them) there aren’t any.

You saying you see no positives in a childfree life for you is fine by me. I’m glad you have had kids!

Imagine caring this much about something that doesn't impact you at all.

How utterly pathetic.

The ‘sad and baffled’ poster escaped the thread when challenged about why she feels so sad.

It is such a patronising attitude.

The same poster also advocated for a bloody 16 year old having a baby. Utter madness.