Can’t just be me who is sick of the moaning about the private school VAT and winter fuel payments

[TruthorDie]

The moaning about them seems to be never ending. So tone death and indulgent on both counts. Not sure which is worse. A friends mum was ranting on social media earlier about winter fuel payments being stopped and how “worried about being cold” she was. Bad news is Lynn you haven’t needed to work since 1989, married to an oil exec and have had lots of the good life. I’m sure all of your Florida holidays keep you warm enough!

Bright children can get on anywhere, my siblings and l went to a comprehensive. We all have a couple of degrees, one of us has a PhD so it didn’t hold us back too much in life. Before anyone comes at it from the neurodiversity angle then l am and l wouldn’t be surprised if my younger sibling isn’t

That was an autocorrect by my phone, my proof reading wasn’t great after a day of no electricity to my road which led to me reading by candle light and dinner taking forever to make. But tone death does actually work quite well in this situation, even though tone deaf is correct

@TruthorDie I completely agree! There are people in the world who have no food to eat or homes to live in. No one in the Uk should complain about anything at all. Even if they're homely, they could have been homeless in a less supportive country. So yeah, basically no one should complain about anything really

But, it’s variable across time. I didn’t expect anyone to pay my childcare costs so I could work. No vouchers etc then. 🤷‍♀️

@TruthorDie at least you have power (though big bills). Lots of people in the world have no electricity sadly.

Older people are more vulnerable in cold weather - they are more likely to have limited mobility, chronic health problems, spend more time at home, be underweight etc - and if you are on less than 12K a year (full state pension) you are going to struggle to heat your home in winter. I agree with means testing the winter fuel allowance but tieing it to pension credit is far too harsh.

He pays tax on his £218.15 per week pension so I don’t see how he would be able to claim an extra £56, and pays 75% Council Tax because he lives alone. If you have links to these benefits they would be very helpful.

People have their own circles and often friends and relatives overall are on a similar place on socio economic scales. I find people that just can’t see beyond their associates and own circumstances very narrow of thinking.

The way a society treats their older people is a big indicator of just how civilised they truly are. I am retired early as will DH soon but a good decade off state pension age and the loss will not affect us at all. But there is a band of people who really need this payment and the cut off is far too low.

I worked in higher education for close to 30 years and saw end product of private education. That is a complete choice and not a necessity.

Winter fuel payment should always have been means tested so for me this is a move in the right direction, but the way it's means tested and the levels for qualification need to be looked at urgently.

That said I get the jist of your post op. The daily fail banging on about the war on pensioners whilst on the next page raging about benefits Britain....They can't have it both ways.
My FIL went on a rant about this yesterday. He was forced to tap his noise when asked if the loss of his winter fuel payment would affect his plans to go on a European cruise next spring? It's these kinds of people moaning that are getting my goat obviously, not the ones who will actually suffer due to this policy and I assume this is also the case for the op.

Correct me if I’m wrong but the wfa was a bribe by Gordon Brown to get votes to stay in power which worked - bribes don’t make good policy. I think it was ?iain Duncan smith who applied the triple lock on pensions as a bribe for votes - TMay lost votes when she wanted to fix care home costs!!? - the older generation need to stop being manipulated -if you need more pension you need more pension not sops.

Sorry but your last paragraph is completely wrong. Those in receipt of a full state pension of £221.20 do not qualify for pension credit and will therefore not receive the WFA . You may consider that a very comfortable income. Most pensioners already living frugally would disagree.

If £218 state pension is his only income he won’t be paying tax on it as it’s £11336 a year and personal allowance for everyone is £12570.

Morph220110
Council tax reduction scheme. Info here.

https://www.ageuk.org.uk/globalassets/age-uk/documents/information-guides/ageukig54councilltaxsupporttinf.pdf

If you qualify for the guaranteed element of Pension credit then should get 100% relief. If not, then based on income. Use a benefits calculator like turn2us to work it out for you.

Two important things to remember.
1.If you are currently. 'Just over the limit' for Pension Credit. but subsequently get awarded Attendance Allowance. Or start caring for someone . Re calculate your entitlement with the new circumstances. It changes the parameters a lot.

1. If you don't qualify for Pension credit and have over 16k in the bank then most benefits (not Pension Credit) have this as an absolute cut off. This includes housing benefit and council tax reduction scheme.

This.

What's wrong with using a form of means testing for the WFP? Poorer pensioners will still receive it. Richer ones shouldn't.

Yes the endless moaning on these threads from parents who can afford the privilege of private school. 🙄 small number but with the whinging you'd think they were the majority. Very tone deaf to real struggles that many people go through. It's a real eye opener.

Both the WFA and the private school VAT changes are about sending a clear message that previously untouchable groups are now included in the government's sights for raising money and I think that's a good thing.

Yes it's a shame that a small percentage of pensioners will fall into the scenario where they would have been better not earning the full pension, but that's already the case for many of those on low wages paying tax and unable to claim benefits.

I'm not so sure that the VAT on school fees won't cause more problems than it solves though through increased demand at state schools.

I’m delighted to see my parents-in-law, with their two homes and final salary pensions, have to give up the winter fuel allowance. It’s absolutely insane they received it to begin with. FIL was chuntering on about how they now have to pay double council tax for their second home in Scotland ‘but get nothing more for it’, and all I can say is that it’s the least they can do. No one NEEDS a second home and their owning that house means it can’t be lived in full time by a local. When MIL started on the topic of how glad she is the two child benefit cap remains, as you ‘shouldn’t have more children than you can afford’, I asked her how it benefitted society in any way having children live in poverty because their parents made poor choices or life threw a curveball. God, they’re mean. Everything they have they ‘worked hard for’ - sure, but they’ve also been immensely privileged but they can’t see that. Their entitlement is breathtaking. If I have to pay more tax to raise standards for those who need it most, fair enough.

I agree, no issues with people having 1 or 2 children. I digressed into talking about other benefits as some people were inferring l am ageist and have it in for pensioners. I don’t but l do have issues with people declining to see there isn’t a bottomless pot of money to give to people

Just you. I'm really sorry for the pe up era worrying about the winter.

School fees, less so, but I don't really come across anyone moaning about them.

My parents are in the 70s and have a ridiculously high income due to investments and pensions, and there is mortgage fully paid off. I earn around 50k a year and there monthly income is higher than mine.
They have given away their winter fuel allowance each year. Clearly they don’t need it and fully agree they shouldn’t get it.

Obviously there not everyone and fuel is so expensive at the moment. I don’t agree with minimum boundaries but feel that there should be a cut for people like my parents.

i agree

I don’t know exactly what income my mum has, I know it’s not loads, she has old state pension and then a small nhs pension as she only worked for nhs for about 10 years. No savings but lives in mortgage free house, half owned by my dad they divorced years ago and it should have been sold when we reached 18 and money split but up he’s just let her carry on living there. There is no where for the council tax support thst gives a figure of what “low income” is. I’ve used the benefits calculator for different scenarios so maybe I’ll just have to bite the bullet and ask her income or take a sneaky look at her online banking as she always asks me to make payments on thst for her as she can’t do.

Winter fuel payments are brilliant for those who need them. So anyone who is in receipt of benefits will still receive them. More prosperous pensioners, who don't need benefits, don't need the payment. So it's a good saving for the government to stop paying it as a universal benefit.

That all depends on whether you consider living alone with a sole income of £221.20 is prosperous. Those in receipt of full state pension are not eligible for pension credit and have now lost their WFA.

Completely agree. The cuts need to be made somewhere, as there is a shortfall. Lots of people don’t want to acknowledge it.

@TruthorDie

"State pensions are £221 per week plus pension credits."

Not all pensioners get the new rate. It depends which year you were born in. Those born in the late 40s, early 50s don't get the new rate.

Full data on English hospital admissions for hypothermia by age is available here:

https://digital.nhs.uk/supplementary-information/2023/hospital-admissions-with-a-diagnosis-of-hypothermia

Sadly rates are much higher in older people. If rates go up for this winter it will be a very clear indication that Labour have been too harsh with this policy. With the added financial failing that hospital admissions are very expensive, so the policy change might end up costing more money than it saves, whilst also costing lives.

Hopefully they are gunning for the triple lock. It is another indulgence when you think about child poverty figures, the NHS etc