Can’t just be me who is sick of the moaning about the private school VAT and winter fuel payments

[TruthorDie]

The moaning about them seems to be never ending. So tone death and indulgent on both counts. Not sure which is worse. A friends mum was ranting on social media earlier about winter fuel payments being stopped and how “worried about being cold” she was. Bad news is Lynn you haven’t needed to work since 1989, married to an oil exec and have had lots of the good life. I’m sure all of your Florida holidays keep you warm enough!

Bright children can get on anywhere, my siblings and l went to a comprehensive. We all have a couple of degrees, one of us has a PhD so it didn’t hold us back too much in life. Before anyone comes at it from the neurodiversity angle then l am and l wouldn’t be surprised if my younger sibling isn’t

I think you’ll find that the country has been left in shit financial position after 14 years of the Tories being in government.

My former mil is livid about it on social media but she uses the winter fuel payment to buy Xmas presents. I doubt she’ll be cold.

She’s also bankrolling her daughter who “has no money” because she’s out drinking every night.

My mum isn’t happy about it but has over 70k in savings and hasn’t worked in 30yrs. Off on a nice cruise in a couple of months. No I don’t begrudge her that, but she doesn’t need the fuel payment. My ex MIL will get it as she’s on pension credit. Recently sold something of value in her home country and the 150k is in her son’s bank account plus other savings so she qualifies for the benefit. She doesn’t need the fuel payment as she can dip into her savings, but will get it.

I know a couple people on benefits (PIP etc) who have plenty of spare cash, they splash out a lot more than me who is a higher tax rate payer. Not saying all are in these circumstances but minimal outgoings so can save or splurge. There isn’t an endless pot of money and tough decisions need to be made. The VAT on school fees makes sense as there’s other options if parents genuinely can’t afford it. I suspect most will find the extra and cut back on one of their holidays per year.

It doesn't matter if you rent or not, housing benefit calculation is different to being eligible for PC, but you can have zero assets, be paying rent (albeit likely subsidised by HB) but still have just the basic state pension and be £3 over the threshold to get PC.

So someone on £219 a week so not entitled to pension credit but not disabled has a very comfortable income?

Some pensioners will struggle (those just above the threshold), some won’t.

Some private school parents will struggle, some won’t.

It’s like any age group/circumstances - people are in variable situations.🤷‍♀️

My mother in law keeps moaning about this but also has a nice private pension, doesn't need it and last year bragged about it and how she wished itd go to 'those struggling with young families', clearly a load of rubbish. It absolutely needed to be means tested but the cut off is way too low and people will undoubtedly suffer. That cannot be ok.

Private school fees I couldn't care less about. Can't afford then don't send your kid but stop moaning about it

To not be entitled to it - means you really do have a very comfortable income and can pay fuel costs like the rest of us

If you assume that all of them have their own homes and savings, yes. Despite popular belief, not all pensioners have these things. Plenty who are £3 above the cut off will be worse off because they don't qualify by a fair bit.

The main thing that posters aren’t talking about is that the government has to find savings, raise money using the most efficient methods they can. So removing the WFA won’t cost as implementing new means testing, imposing VAT on private school fees uniformly won’t cost as much as staggering its implementation based on school years etc.

I agree OP, there is too much outcry. There are cuts which need to be made somewhere - the country has little money and no-one wants taxes to rise - and funds need to be raised.

Just to qualify - I am an about-to-be pensioner and the loss of winter fuel allowance will affect me too but no, I am not campaigning against it and think it is a good idea. If you check the figures, there are something like 12.8 million pensioners in the UK. Only 1.1 million will, like me, be relying on the state pension alone. The rest have more than enough to live on as they have their own home/private pensions/other savings and do not need the WFA. Those who are really hard hit can still apply for extra help.

I will be living on state pension alone plus I rent my property, with an extremely small amount of savings. I have done my budget calculations, my needs are simple and I haven't factored WFA in any of my calculations. I will have enough to live on, quite happily, without it.

As for the VAT on school fees, I have spent some years of my life involved in private education in various roles. Many independent schools have changed over the years, especially the larger ones - I am talking mainstream ones rather than those who cater for special needs though. The school I have just retired from, more than 80% of pupils are from overseas, children of rich Chinese, Middle Eastern or Russian parents, many European billionaires etc. There are fewer and fewer UK parents; those who struggle are offered bursaries or can apply for scholarships. Some of the larger schools are offering to cover the VAT increase themselves, and some are doing deals whereby some VAT can be reclaimed so that the overall percentage is around 8% rather than 20%. Independent schools are generally a choice, there are other choices if it doesn't suit your finances.

Totally this.
My mil used to split her £200 winter fuel allowance, between her 4 kids and give them £50 each at Christmas - we always told her we didn't want it

Well said!

Is he claiming the £56 per month pension savings credit he is entitled to ? Plus the 98% off his council tax based on £218 state pension as his sole income. ?

That is more than the WFA

There are elderly working class people who have worked since their teens. Pensioners can't get the winter fuel payment if they've worked hard for their money and saved. Not all pensioners were on 6 figures before retirement. Labour might even be stopping pensions! And yet working age people who have never worked a day in their lives (or work very few hours) and claim benefits, a house, winter fuel payments etc. Just let old people have their pensions and winter fuel allowance! Politicians can reduce their wages and ban them from having tax payers pay their expenses.

Has she claimed AA based on her ill health and then reapplied for Pension Credi ? Recept of AA/DLA/PIP changes the amount of money you can have coming in (and increased savings limits ) substantially.

To not be entitled to savings credit when disabled means you must have a substantial income and or substantial savings.

I don't equate the two. I have read little about the winter fuel payments, a lot about VAT on private school fees.

I partially agree with this but I would restate it to “some pensioners will suffer, others won’t. Some children (SEN) will suffer others won’t”.

there is allegedly a £20bn holes in the public purse. Those two savings will bring in much less than we thought. In the meantime, train drivers and junior doctors have received massive pay increases and I am sure there is more to come given all upcoming strikes.

i would have liked to see more discussions around how to help the weakest children in society (no I don’t think the 6000 teachers will materialise and there is no money). I would also have preferred not risking loads of pensioners who are just a few pounds above the brink to freeze - but….

none of these “savings” will pay for even a fraction of the money already spent.

Haven’t heard anyone at our prep school moaning about VAT. Lots of us paid a few years of fees in advance based on legal and tax advice received 6 months ago. DH and I both increased our pension contributions to max too.

We already support parents and this will increase when they lose WFA. We’re not moaning though.

Not necessarily…OP may never
retire as many of us under 45 today likely may never get to be a ‘pensioner’… as simply never ever get to stop working. Many believe the State pension will go completely/means tested and/or state pension age will go entirely.

The vast majority of pensioners today will have much better financial support than the vast majority who will ‘retire’ in the future.

What’s the criteria for getting 98% off council tax never heard of this one, my mum gets 25% for living alone but I think anyone living alone gets thst

You are in the elite portion of private school fee payers who the VAT doesn't impact so nothing really to moan about. Many are not in such a position of privilege so have plenty to moan about. Sadly in our area the ones in your position aren't really bothered about it so the schools don't seem to be either and seem to just be accepting they will pass on the full 20% which will price out loads of parents.

Morph220120

£219 per week income ? No rent ? (because it can be claimed for ) then entitled to £16.67 a week in Savings Pension credit and 98% off their council tax

Sorry but the idea of having £235 per week just to support my self . With only food for one to pay for .? I had less than that to bring up 2 kids and certainly didn't get or expect someone to pay my gas bill.

I think it would have been fairer to make WFA part of taxable income. I would still lose it and I'm fine with that.
And I know wealthy pensioners who are moaning and people who worked cash in hand so have no private pensions but seem to be doing very nicely.

The fuss about VAT has been endless. My only comment on your post there is not all children are bright so the fact bright chikdren will do well anywhere is irrelevent for e majority. Most children are average. asd is a spectrum disorder, so it impacts people in different ways.

I've hardly seen any fuss about winter fuel at all. But do think there are people just over the cut off that will suffer and that's a worry.

No one family needs one or two children, but society as a whole relies on people having one or two children.

I’m child free but I sure as hell need other couples to be having 1 or 2 children.