Can’t just be me who is sick of the moaning about the private school VAT and winter fuel payments

[TruthorDie]

The moaning about them seems to be never ending. So tone death and indulgent on both counts. Not sure which is worse. A friends mum was ranting on social media earlier about winter fuel payments being stopped and how “worried about being cold” she was. Bad news is Lynn you haven’t needed to work since 1989, married to an oil exec and have had lots of the good life. I’m sure all of your Florida holidays keep you warm enough!

Bright children can get on anywhere, my siblings and l went to a comprehensive. We all have a couple of degrees, one of us has a PhD so it didn’t hold us back too much in life. Before anyone comes at it from the neurodiversity angle then l am and l wouldn’t be surprised if my younger sibling isn’t

🙄

If you say so.

I suspect you are not really here for a genuine discussion, given your attitude towards me and to other posters.

It’s really not personal - but I will continue to call out BS when I see it.

Have a good day - I’m heading out.

Very condensed answer I would be fine with absolutely nobody getting the winter fuel allowance.
You make a choice in life.
many, many people who have paid into a private pension and don’t receive pension credit are financially worse off than those who will get this benefit.
As already pointed out the benefits some people get far out way the benefits lots of others who have wired hard all their life get.
Do I want to work until I am 71 to pay for those who chose to not make sacrifices and pay into a private pension? No I don’t . I don’t care how cold they claim to be. Go and get a job. Go an volunteer so you are not at home.
I often work 7 days a week. I am very mindful of reducing my energy use.

To be honest, I can see both sides - especially as I have moved from the private to the public sector.

I would be keen to know if posters who are supportive of all this are public sector or private sector?

(As public sector employee) I work from home three days a week, two in the office - great for not paying for wraparound care. No need to come in if there are train strikes. Great pension. No way to measure productivity, people working from home log on late, log off early and disappear for long periods. I actually work really hard but many don’t…. And there are so many of us….

https://www.ons.gov.uk/employmentandlabourmarket/peopleinwork/publicsectorpersonnel/timeseries/g7g3/pse

"Fundamentally, the country is broke, the NHS is broken, public sector spending (and pensions) are out of control- and the big savings so far is a) winter fuel allowance (hitting some very badly off pensioners) and VAT on independent schools (hitting a lot of children with undiagnosed SEN) - both policies unlikely to bring in anywhere near what they are expected to do"

It now appears lots of PS children have undiagnosed SEN, goodness, the lengths people go to. The scrabbling about to make sure people who have more spare cash floating around than average go to. 🙄the excuses, the reasons why they shouldn't pay vat. Did this level of whinging occur when very poor people lost FSM

I think means testing the WF payments is common sense.
I think VAT on Private School fees is a bad move and my kids are in state school.
People have the right to voice their opinion in the UK. There are other countries you can move to where they aren't allowed, if you find it so annoying.

I do think the WFA decision is problematic. While I absolutely support the principle that it should not be paid to pensioners who clearly don't need it, using PC as a gateway is imo a mistake. Pensioner benefits are inconsistent and complex enough as it is, already resulting in some being significantly better off than others (The PIP/AA situation being one example) and the PC gateway for WFA adds another layer to this. I know it would have been more costly and less efficient to implement, but I do wish they'd use a proper means test with a sliding scale for entitlement.

I was with you until this.
The size of someone's family should be down to the couple raising the family, not anyone else.

Too many people rubbed their hands together with glee when the two child benefit cap was introduced, because there is this inherent hatred of people that choose to have more than two kids (and I know this on a personal level).

I am subjected to outright venom when out and about with my family.

My partner works so many hours to support us that I feel like I barely see him, but it's not okay for us to get a little bit of additional help because someone else chose not to have a big family for financial reasons, whereas we chose to take the chance because I know I would never regret a child I had but would always regret never going for another child just because it meant we have a little less money.

I worked my arse off before having a family, I know what it's like to work, and I never once resented any of my tax money going to those that needed help, it never even entered my head, because I'm not spiteful and selfish.

Why is it okay for children to be pushed into poverty, children that didn't ask to be born, but not okay for pensioners that can for the most part find the money, not to?

I understand it must be hard being a boomer and being used to everything being handed to you, but this is what it's like for everyone else, and if you find it awful then imagine what every day younger people have gone through the past 14 years that those pensioners have been voting in Tories (their main target audience) and screwing everyone else over.

I don't have sympathy, I just don't.
When they're paying more than just a pittance in mortgage fees or tiny little social housing rents, I may have more sympathy.

But do not come for those that decided that they wanted more than two kids, we've had enough of being the equivalent to what is found on the bottom of your shoe.

With regards to the 10% of £16m…. Still more in tax than I have paid in my life and will pay and that in one year… Have you paid this much tax?

There was me thinking that tax rates applied to all? yet now we have a "special" tax rate for the v wealthy, based not on a % but on the total amount of tax.

Obviously i haven't paid 1.6m in tax but then again, i haven't "earned" £16m either.

Yes our debt is terrible, thats what 14 years of the Tories have done to this country but what is really shameful is that this debt has got us nothing at all in return, terrible roads, healthcare, transport & housing.

Pls don't mention GFC, Covid or Ukraine, all these things have affected other European countries too.

We are in the mess we are in due to the Tories & their Austerity policies.

Yes i do know some extremely wealthy people, with zero intention of the leaving the UK, whatever the tax rates, their lives are here: children, friends, social contacts, work, they love the countryside and our more temperate climate.
They all have hols homes abroad but wouldn't want to live there FT.

Even for the super rich, moving to an EU country is difficult & in your 50s and 60s, Dubia isn't really that attractive.

I find this a really interesting discussion - and completely understand that when you have saved so much for your pension, you are very upset that other were not as prudent.

just as an example, a public sector employee with a career average salary of £40k (lower than all train drivers) and a 1/60 contribution (train drivers, civil servants are 1/60, doctors are 1/50) will get an annual pension of £26,666 in addition to the state minimum pension.

a private pension pot of £375k (taking no lump sum) will give you £24,769 annually in addition to the state minimum pension. Around 5.9m people work in the public sector.

most public sector employees have pension pot equivalents the private sector only can dream on and all increases in salary will also increase those pensions.

Dies the WFA bother you more than the public sector pensions? I would assume that almost none of the people on the breadline worked for the public sector….

By all means call it out but have the courtesy to back up your assertions. If you make a claim provide evidence otherwise I’ll just discount whatever you say. All my “initiative” - I don’t think that’s what you actually mean - is used providing links that back up my points. I’m not your secretary.

But that what tax is for-to support each other and the wider running of the UK, is it not?

I never had children, but I am happy for my tax to go towards supporting other people's. We need people to have more children than they are currently having, not fewer.

Yes. And that is day school per child, as a poster later added boarding school is twice that. Completely tone deaf.

I’m sure some of your DC’s teachers were state educated so you still benefited from it.

It is not just people in need with children who benefit from my taxes. It is all people with children as I contribute towards child benefit. education and health care.

Having any number of children is a lifestyle choice. Should people not have children at all unless they can pay for all their needs independently?

You re assuming they have worked in the public sector for 30 or 40 years, many do not.
They will also being paying tax on that, plus spending it in the UK, in their local economy.
The other thing is we have huge shortfalls in teaching, health, probation and prison services, so whilst you might think these pensions are not affordable, how else do we get people to join and stay in these sectors?

I do believe the UK also has a shortage of train drivers!!

Pension benefits for new starters in the public sector have been reduced too.

I've only worked in the private sector and can see there might be a split on this, pay rises v tax rises, obviously one is preferable over the other

I guess we'll see re budget and how everything gets paid for

But why is there these shortfalls? As someone who have done all kind of works going (fruit picking, Burger King, cleaning hotel rooms), would not many public sector jobs be both much better paid and better conditions? Many law students I knew (without massive funding from home) worked part time in prisons or similar (not UK), especially if they had an interest in criminal law.

with regards to train drivers, I believe that the recruitment process is hugely competitive.

Pension benefits for new starters may have been reduced but I still think they are amazing as a fairly new joiner.

I am not sure that public sector employees are more worthy as people than private sector employees. However, only one of those groups are guaranteed not to retire in poverty. Both groups pay taxes and spend their money in the U.K.

and most posters here are hugely supportive of increased public sector salaries, increased public sector holidays, enhanced working from home… massive spending spree… whilst also saying that it is necessary to withdraw the WFA.

The VAT I could understand if it actually will bring in money - but I am unsure if it will.

again, I find it fascinating how people view this so please don’t believe that I am trying to pick on any specific poster.

Eastern, I am also looking forward to the budget!!!

I am not sure that public sector employees are more worthy as people than private sector employees. However, only one of those groups are guaranteed not to retire in poverty. Both groups pay taxes and spend their money in the U.K.

Neither group is guarenteed to not retire in poverty 🤣
I think you are unfortunately comparing apples to oranges because many lower level public servants do indeed retire in poverty. Like the lowly bin man hired by the local council who starts at £17k and tops out at £25k….

The civil service is another matter, these public servants will tend to have post graduate degrees and professional qualifications that would mean they would not retire in poverty no matter who they worked for so long as they contribute enough to a pension. That’s why they tend to go back and forth between private and public sector jobs.

As always, the likelihood of retiring in poverty is really a function of education, profession and socio-economic class. It’s not a public vs private sector divide.

The Gov decided 2 is the max, not 3 unless 2&3 are twins or 3 was a product of rape or incest backed up by police charges.

Every child is in genuine need. I think we forget that withholding financial support doesn’t punish the parents but the children.