Can’t just be me who is sick of the moaning about the private school VAT and winter fuel payments

[TruthorDie]

The moaning about them seems to be never ending. So tone death and indulgent on both counts. Not sure which is worse. A friends mum was ranting on social media earlier about winter fuel payments being stopped and how “worried about being cold” she was. Bad news is Lynn you haven’t needed to work since 1989, married to an oil exec and have had lots of the good life. I’m sure all of your Florida holidays keep you warm enough!

Bright children can get on anywhere, my siblings and l went to a comprehensive. We all have a couple of degrees, one of us has a PhD so it didn’t hold us back too much in life. Before anyone comes at it from the neurodiversity angle then l am and l wouldn’t be surprised if my younger sibling isn’t

Please can you post a link x

Absolutely this. Beyond the debates on whether the VAT on school fees is fair or unfair, has anyone seen any info on exactly how the money raised will be spent in a quantified way - for example how much extra it will mean per state school child, what exactly it will be spent on, how the promised improvements will be measured, over what time period do they expect to see these improvements, how much of an improvement do they need to see to quantify this policy as success/failure, will it be spread evenly over the country or focused on struggling schools, or SEN, or buildings? There doesn't seem to be any depth to this policy beyond a very vague 'improve state schools'. I guess if they keep it vague, no one can tell if they have failed, so maybe that's intentional?

6 million people work for the state in the UK - let that sink in for a moment.

Of course Starmer and his mates are going to award hefty pay awards to the public sector - that’s how they get to remain in power.

We will soon be twinned with Argentina…

I thought the UK was going to become Venezuela?

Are you an actuary?

i said that children like the posters daughter were worst effected by the vat increase, I didn’t say she was the worst effected out of all Sen children. Basically the worst effected Sen children are the poorest who can’t afford a private school, indepdent reports, solicitors etc and /or the ones who have parents that are unable to out a legal argument together themselves and go to tribunal (this is not a criticism just fact). This doesn’t mean thst the posters daughter isn’t entitled to an education like every other child in the country just becuase they have Sen, all Sen children are entitled to an education.

I actually voted labour I will add as I don’t agree with the tories and what they’ve done for last 14 years but I don’t agree with this policy

DA manages really well on her state pension and it means she can have her heating on all winter (although to be fair we've put her heating on today already - Scotland) based on getting the winter fuel payment.She is 85, very frail and feels the cold awfully. She gets £5 over the new limit which means she will no longer get it. Given how well she did she never claimed AA however now they've taken the WFP away it's actually going to cost the government more. I don't care about private school VAT but I do care about our elderly terrified to put their heating on each winter.

It is in relation to this thread.

Strikes have economic impact, these have affected growth and they ve helped cause longer waiting lists, again impacting on the economy.

Good luck taking these pension schemes off Dr's and Train drivers, giving the money saved to schools etc, at what cost? how long do you think the ensuing strikes would last for and would extend into other industries?

Its stupid idea.

Equalising taxes on unearned income and changes to CGT would raise far more and at almost zero cost, as it would align us to most of Europe.

‘where are these figures for fees coming from? ’
Institute of Fiscal Studies, The Good Schools Guide, The Telegraph, just about any wealth management/money management firm offering to help you budget and manage it…
It‘s one of the few things they all agree on, the average day fees, average boarding fees, the fact that fees have risen well above inflation for 2 decades…
If you go and look at the grps on SM trying to rally against VAT the same theme comes up over and over again… fees were already rising to ridiculous levels with parents feeling they had no choice but to pay up and be fleeced year after year, child after child… seems primary school
was okay for many but once they hit senior schools…

I am not arguing to take the pensions off. I am actually working within the public sector and I will do what I can to encourage my union to ensure an inflation busting pay increase and thereby increase my pension (I am still amazed at how brilliant public sector pensions are, absolutely unbelievable).

but fundamentally, as a country, we cannot afford the public sector pensions - or the massive pay increases. It is a huge, ever increasing cost public expense and there is no solution.

capital gains tax equalisation… it could work… maybe… But most people with a lot of money (and capital gains) are not U.K. citizens and there are several countries in Europe with better prospects… Luxembourg, Switzerland, Monaco, Italy and maybe even France (I believe that France has some complex rules around how money earned is allocated among family members but on this I am not sure). Then there is Dubai. Most expats of Indian heritage loves Dubai as it is closer to home, minimum tax and decent schools. But then again, only the main income owner could also move abroad, leaving wife and children (none of whom makes any money) in the UK until the schools have a good exit point.

Fundamentally, the country is broke, the NHS is broken, public sector spending (and pensions) are out of control- and the big savings so far is a) winter fuel allowance (hitting some very badly off pensioners) and VAT on independent schools (hitting a lot of children with undiagnosed SEN) - both policies unlikely to bring in anywhere near what they are expected to do.

if we then start to clobber highly movable people who pays a huge amount of tax revenue (if you not are a UK citizen, expect to realise a huge capital gain, why would you do that in the U.K. if you can live abroad for a couple of years), the finances will not really improve?

Again, this is an intellectual argument. As a public sector employee with a great defined benefit pension scheme, I will clearly make the argument that my workplace should have an inflation busting salary increase - as this is what other public sectors are getting. This will nicely increase my pension as well.

Not extreme thoughts . Just reality. Less voters for Starmer than there was for Corbyn at the last GE but it’s what we’ve got and what’s done is done.
People have incredibly selective memories.

Let’s wait to see how Reeves delivers in her October speech… 🙄🙄🙄

Tax rises and spending cuts will feel different to the populist and ineffective VAT

More people will feel it, public sector will still be keen as pay rises but otherwise I doubt higher taxes etc will be welcome

Spot on.

Aint fiscal drag a wonderful leveller…

looks like education is not doing too well….

https://www.theguardian.com/education/article/2024/aug/21/ministers-urged-to-act-over-numbers-failing-english-and-maths-gcses

but no money announced for schools (except this VAT which is spent many times over should it materialise)…. And of course the fuel allowance taken of old people as energy cost are rising - and energy firms are leaving the uk pushing prices up further
https://www.euronews.com/business/2024/08/19/could-britains-soaring-taxes-push-energy-companies-to-norway

Borrowing up massively above expectations today, expected to raise taxes etc…

And train unions now demanding extra holidays 38 days annual leave and 35 hour working week… is this the same people with the bumper pay rise and massive pensions?

Meanwhile, Starmer’s approval rating is getting hammered….

That would only be of any consequence if an election was imminent. As it is …

14 years of Tory mismanagement will have caused those things. It will take years to reverse the problems yet no one appears to want to contribute even rich pensioners who 'need' their wfa and private school parents who can find on average £18,000 a year for fees and are suddenly poor .

We all want better services but no one seems to want to contribute.

Fundamentally, the country is broke, the NHS is broken, public sector spending (and pensions) are out of control- and the big savings so far is a) winter fuel allowance (hitting some very badly off pensioners) and VAT on independent schools (hitting a lot of children with undiagnosed SEN) - both policies unlikely to bring in anywhere near what they are expected to do

We are still a very wealthy country, with, compared to many countries in Europe, low tax rates, we have spent the last 14 years helping the wealthy get wealthier but look how that has worked out for the rest of us???

if we then start to clobber highly movable people who pays a huge amount of tax revenue (if you not are a UK citizen, expect to realise a huge capital gain, why would you do that in the U.K. if you can live abroad for a couple of years), the finances will not really improve?

This always gets trotted out, are these "very movable people" paying huge amounts of tax? they use 'vehicles to ensure they do not but even if they don't avoid tax:
Someone i know has been paying 10% entrepreneurs tax on profit of over £16m, the rules have changed now (to just the first 1m in profit) but he paid £1.6m tax... all legally done, in fact encouraged.
Not super rich, just the owner of a med sized company.

Sunak, not a billionaire, paid just 20% on almost £2m of investment income, his own investments in the USA, plenty of people will be paying very similar low rates of tax on un earned income, we could also look at increasing the amounts charged on the higher rate council bands too, you think people will leave because their CT bill doubles???

100s of billions get moved out of the UK to avoid tax, nothing illegal but this idea that we cannot tighten up/change the rules because they will leave is completely wrong.

Wrong.

The weaker he is - the more those on the left will ensure he is held to ransom with the unions.

The left never went away - look what happened to Corbyn.

Bright children can get on anywhere,

Just not true. For so many reasons.

And that's before we even begin to discuss the less able children.

Nothing surprising there, they weren't great pre GE plus Parliament is in recess.

However, for a party over halfway through their first 100 days, its beyond weak, i don't expect miracles but they have done very little other than piss people off for tiny savings (WFA).

Where are the announcements on Dentalcare? Care workers? Road mtce? just tell us you will change these over time but nothing, not a whisper.

Yes, all require money but if Labour aren't going to change these, then what is their point?

Popularity and strength aren’t the same thing.

Yes look what happened to Corbyn? not even in the PLP and his backers either out too or on the backbenches, rules changed so another Corbyn cannot happen again.

Unions are democratic bodies, with members who have to actively opt in to support Labour, they now get much of their funding from other sources, where as the Tories get theirs from a very few very rich people and company bosses.

Try again.

‘if we then start to clobber highly movable people who pays a huge amount of tax revenue (if you not are a UK citizen, expect to realise a huge capital gain, why would you do that in the U.K. if you can live abroad for a couple of years), the finances will not really improve?’

TBH the kind of people who threaten or do this, bugger off to Dubai or wherever are t really the kind of people you’d want staying anyway.
You also underestimate how easy it is to ‘mitigate’ tax burdens legally when you’re very wealthy in the U.K. and you don’t know how few places there are to bugger off to that would actually let rich Brits escape taxes…

I know the Andrew Tate’s of the world are happy to go and live in the shadows in Romania but not everyone wants to do that to save a few quid when a decent wealth form in the U.K. can achieve the same and let you stay home.

By who though? Do you have a link, please?

But as you said, Parliament is in recess. Big announcements are not made at this time of year. Nothing much happens at all until after conference season is done and dusted.