Can’t just be me who is sick of the moaning about the private school VAT and winter fuel payments

[TruthorDie]

The moaning about them seems to be never ending. So tone death and indulgent on both counts. Not sure which is worse. A friends mum was ranting on social media earlier about winter fuel payments being stopped and how “worried about being cold” she was. Bad news is Lynn you haven’t needed to work since 1989, married to an oil exec and have had lots of the good life. I’m sure all of your Florida holidays keep you warm enough!

Bright children can get on anywhere, my siblings and l went to a comprehensive. We all have a couple of degrees, one of us has a PhD so it didn’t hold us back too much in life. Before anyone comes at it from the neurodiversity angle then l am and l wouldn’t be surprised if my younger sibling isn’t

Indeed, it came over that way. Pretty standard, typical stuff.

You mean for those of us who work. For pensioners? For those who have worked hard and managed to save a little bit of money?

Your average person really.

Nah. It’s going to be a tough one for the ordinary folk. That’s who they loathe .

Loath?

You actually think a political party loath ordinary folk. Whereas the Tory Party love them, perhaps. Strange how politics brings out extreme thoughts.

Another neighbour has checked and she doesn't qualify. Absolutely - she has a small amount if savings for unexpected costs, and gets pension savings credit, but not pension credit, so doesn't qualify.

Nearly all of us probably take out more than they put in, only the top 10% who pay in lots and use private schools, private healthcare etc are likely to be net contributors. But it's important as a society that we look after the most vunerable, and I cant think of many more vunerable people than my neighbour.

Hard to fathom isn't it? Whatever your politics, it's hard to understand the mindset of people who bring such high levels of drama and hyperbole to what basically amounts to a change to a moderately left leaning government, within a conservative (small C) democracy like the UK. Some of the comments I've seen, all bluster and emotion, with very little rational thinking or knowledge does make me think that politics should be compulsory in schools. People appear to be whipping themselves up to panic due to a lack of basic understanding.

'I know exactly what you were doing. You were insinuating that people will lose out on the WFA who are more morally deserving of it than others who will keep it. Because those in the first group were more sensible than those in the second. You were doing it as part of your wider narrative that under Labour hard work and frugality is 'punished' whereas under the Tories its rewarded. Which is of course, a lie.'

👏🏻 👏🏻

I think it is partly because the top 10% (people on £67k+ a year sometimes x 2 if both parents work as many with children in private school do ) have been given under the high tax Tories the highest tax burden in 70 years, whereas the other 90% have had tax cuts since 2010. I can understand everyone being happy when others not they pay more tax - of course. Let billionaires pay it all people say or non doms or Amazon or doctors - just about anyone who earns m ore than the person making the comment. However there does come a point where those who fund the rest - the net payers work a bit less (which already happens for those who lose the personal tax allowance around the 100k mark and those losing child benefit a bit lower down and then right down to those on benefits where work may or may not pay. The UK has a massive productivity problem so encouraging those who pay a lot of tax to work harder may mean more money for state schools than this mean private school VAT and business rates policy which breaches EU law and depends on Brexit to get it done.

Exactly.

I think it is partly because the top 10% (people on £67k+ a year sometimes x 2 if both parents work as many with children in private school do ) have been given under the high tax Tories the highest tax burden in 70 years, whereas the other 90% have had tax cuts since 2010.

How is this right? The highest tax burden of 70yrs is on the lower 90% not the upper 10%.

In the 1970s, the highest rate of income tax on earned income was 83 per cent. Margaret Thatcher’s government reduced it to 60 per cent in 1980 and 40 per cent in 1989 (equal to the higher rate).

In 2010, the highest income tax bracket was raised to 50% by Labour for only the top 1% of earners (the rest of the top 10% stayed at 40%) but then that 50% was cut by the Tories to 45% in 2013.

Meanwhile, the lower 90% haven’t had any tax cuts just for them. The lower tax bracket has remained at 20% and the personal allowance freeze started in 2022 and now extended to 2028, has more than offset the NI cut, causing a net tax increase for everyone except the top 1%, but disproportionately affecting the bottom 90%.

I think it's all nonsense too.

If you can afford private school fees, you can afford the VAT. Or you can't and will have to send your kids to state schools with the plebs. The horror. Oh well. The 93% seem to do ok.

And the winter fuel payments will still go to the elderly people who are hard up and actually need them.

does make me think that politics should be compulsory in schools

Yes. My son wants to start an institute for political education to teach people how the various institutions work, how taxation works and where the main sources of revenue are etc.

They have them in Germany - a main federal one and then one for the various states. There is ample evidence that people in the UK would benefit too - the Brexit vote being the key one.

Pension credit allows you to have £16,000. That is not a very small amount and is certainly enough to replace a washing machine etc. Also, you can have a bit more if you show it's earmarked eg if you need to pay out for roof repairs.

No need to save for funerals, it just comes out of the estate. All these funeral insurance policies are a con but that's for another thread!

My Mum is literally £10 over the limit for pension credits and therefore won't get her winter fuel allowance and is really worried and will suffer this winter.

There is a whole group of elderly who only just don't qualify for pension credits sometimes by as little as a few pounds over the threshold and therefore won't quality for winter fuel payment. These people are hard up and will suffer now without it.

The US also has a mandatory civics class that goes over how laws are made, how taxes work, how funding decisions are made, what the different parts of he federal Gov do, what states do, etc.

Pension credit gets you up to having a total income that is still peanuts and barely enough to survive on. It’s not some sort of bonus cash that isn’t needed for essential outgoings.

Yep, my friend's pensioner parents are relentlessly sharing memes and posts about the government not caring due to the winter fuel bill being cut... whilst they are on their 4th foreign holiday of the year so far FFS

Let’s be honest, it’s a war out there. Your money, my money.

People will continue to try to protect their own interests whilst Labour seek to divide people along demographic lines including age, class, creed etc.

People vote for who they will believe will protect their (predominantly economic) interests.

Those who suggest otherwise are in denial.

The first 10 k of savings are disregarded for Pension credit. Above that it assumes some income from the savings. If you have a high applicable amount then some people can have much larger amounts of savings and still qualify. In my job we regularly see people who have low state pensions and 50k in the bank and can still qualify for pension credit.

You clearly trust the government to administer tax receipts correctly.

You are making a huge mistake.

It doesn’t seem to do much for informed political participation in the US, to judge by X, YouTube and the like!

Lots of posts about the cold lonely 90 year old shivering - when this is exactly the problem - 90 years old - that's probably 30 years of retirement or 35 years if a woman and who's had to fund this because unless they were a top earner wouldn't have contributed a fraction of what they have got back over all those years - and could have many years to go.

The money has to come from somewhere and as we aren't producing anything as a country except some IT and Movies what are any Gov supposed to do - use Sooty's magic wand?

I agree, but the Tories did the same. Set one group against another. While people are arguing amongst themselves the government are just sitting there.🤷‍♀️

With many newspapers and organisations now campaigning against cutting the WFA, this could all change in the Autumn budget anyway.

I do think, however, that many groups will end up worse off than thry were.

A woman aged 90 would have had her pension for a maximum of 30 years and is highly unlikely to have “many years to go”. Every 90 year old is balanced out by the people who die before they ever get their pension or shortly afterwards. Every generation funds the pensions of the previous ones, I paid my parents’ and grandparents’ pensions - although two of my grandparents died before they hit pension age.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/money/tax/labour-winter-fuel-savings-wiped-out-4bn-benefits-bill/

It's back fired anyway. There were also just as many pensioner's who weren't claiming pension credit as it isn't much money. They got the winter fuel payment regardless.

So now everyone who can claim it is looking into claiming it to get the wfp and it's going to cost £4 billion 😂