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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Witholding my rent AIBU

831 replies

littledragon99 · 15/08/2024 13:29

I'm a woman in my late 40s, living in a 3-bed Victorian terrace in West London, where I pay £1,200 a month with all bills included. I signed an AST in May.
I work in recruitment and DJ on the side. Despite being skilled in my job, financial difficulties have arisen following my mother’s death, and I've struggled with timely rent payments. I’m currently in therapy to manage my depression.
Recently, my landlady has begun Airbnb-ing the living room, removing the communal space I was paying for. Given this change, I believe the £1,200 rent is no longer justified.
Additionally, she inappropriately contacted my boss, (my boss was my reference) about paying rent directly and has threatened eviction. I’ve consulted Citizens Advice and suspect my deposit wasn’t placed in a Tenancy Deposit Scheme (TDS), which may breach legal requirements.
Due to these issues, I’ve withheld my rent since August 1st and am prepared to take further action if needed.

OP posts:
Thread gallery
9
Starlight1979 · 15/08/2024 14:11

I completely agree, the landlord shouldn't have to pay the OP's bills and the OP shouldn't have to pay the landlord's mortgage or bills!

@CaptainBolt - You cannot be serious. So OP should be able to live in a property that doesn't belong to her free of charge?

urbanbuddha · 15/08/2024 14:12

MzHz · 15/08/2024 13:31

Get on to Shelter NOW. You can't hold rent as this is a valid reason to evict you. get advice first and foremost. you don't hold all the cards here, but you do have rights, don't give them away by taking the wrong decision

This. Urgently.

twomanyfrogsinabox · 15/08/2024 14:12

It seems like the 'lounge' was a room that could be let, it wasn't for a while and you used it as an extra living space (with permission I assume). Now it's let so you can't. That's no reason not to pay your rent and it seems you were a bad payer already. My sympathy is with the landlord. What does your contract say about using the lounge? That is the important thing, if it says the lounge is common space like the bathroom and kitchen you may have a leg to stand on, but I rather doubt that is the case.

Miffylou · 15/08/2024 14:12

Your landlady is being unreasonable but you are being more unreasonable. You can’t expect to keep living somewhere and not pay rent for it. Go back to Citizens Advuce or contact Shelter hotline.

Theweepywillow · 15/08/2024 14:12

Ok the op was misleading, it read like you rented the house.

the bottom line is you’re in breach by not paying your rent, as such she will be able to move to eviction. And if she does so, you will be hard pressed to ever find someone to rent a room to you again. As such, you need to pay it I’m sorry. You cannot withhold rent. And honestly. You need her way more than she needs you.

Iseeiseeisee · 15/08/2024 14:13

littledragon99 · 15/08/2024 14:09

I'm not sure why i put my age, helps build a picture i guess. I don't know what you mean about LL reluctant to rent to more mature people?

Edited

Landlords are apparently reluctant to rent rooms in shared properties - as opposed to renting out full properties- to people from mid or late 30s.

i also don’t know why, but I thought this thread, as a few others have pointed it out to you is instructive. Sorry you can’t see it!

drowninginsick · 15/08/2024 14:13

Bloody hell i have adhd bit you need to change your attitude

"I have ADHD and often need to be reminded"

So set a reminder on your phone and use a reminder app. That's how I manage. Never paying your rent on time is crap!

Separately I would ask for a reduction given you no longer have an amenity but she's hardly
Likely to feel like saying yes is she !

MissingMoominMamma · 15/08/2024 14:14

littledragon99 · 15/08/2024 13:36

She said since "I have never paid my rent on time" she needs the guarenteed airbnb income from airbnb'ing out the lounge, but this is just making my anxiety levels through the roof

She has bills to pay too. Do you have the money you’ve withheld?

Pay her what you can, then work out a repayment plan for the rest of what you owe.

Cosyblankets · 15/08/2024 14:15

littledragon99 · 15/08/2024 13:58

I have ADHD and often need to be reminded

Does this prevent you from setting up a direct debit?
Do you need to be reminded to go to work?
How do you pay your phone contract or any other subscriptions? If you didn't pay them then your phone wouldn't work. What's the difference?
Sorry but you've lost all credibility with that comment.
Check your agreement and if it doesn't explicitly say you have use of the living room then you don't have a case.

Theweepywillow · 15/08/2024 14:15

Starlight1979 · 15/08/2024 14:11

I completely agree, the landlord shouldn't have to pay the OP's bills and the OP shouldn't have to pay the landlord's mortgage or bills!

@CaptainBolt - You cannot be serious. So OP should be able to live in a property that doesn't belong to her free of charge?

Agree, ive seen some ridiculous things written on this forum but that may win the internet today.

littledragon99 · 15/08/2024 14:16

GoodLordyTheExcusesWeMakeForThem · 15/08/2024 14:09

You have an ast and live in a shared home with ise of communal living spaces. First things first, do NOT withhold rent and if you do choose to make sure you NEVER owe more than 8 weeks rent. As ling as you keep it below 8 weeks a section 8 eviction notice cant be served. A section 21 will never be served and valid if your tenancy deposit wasnt protected and the prescribed information supplied to you. The inly way this is possible is if the entire deposit is returned to you before a section 21 is served. Now removal of the communal space IS a valid reason to withold part of the rent for the periods the space isnt available to you. As long as the communal spaces are listed in your ast. If, as it sounds, your LL is ‘renting’ this space out to people on airbnb as a private space and therefore depriving you and the other tenants of the use of it, that is interfering with your ability to ise your home. Especially if this is to people you have no idea who they are etc. it is completely unreasonable for your LL to make this change. Full bloody stop. Ad you have an ast and your deposit wasnt protected nor was the prescribed information served you can vlaim via for N1 for the court to impose a ‘fine’ of up to 3 times the deposit amount for each infraction. This would be, for example on a 6 month initial contract that then went periodic and lasted another 18 months with an initial deposit of £1000….. up to £3000 for the deposit not being protected, £3000 for the prescribed information nor having been served and this is then repeated every 6 months (or possibly every month if the ‘period’ of rent payment is monthly etc) so this would mean a court claim of £8000 plus initial deposit returned in full at a minimum and up to £114,000 plus initial deposit back if the court awarded the maximum £3000 for each infraction and determined the ‘period’ to be monthly. This would probably force your LL to have to sell the home to pay you. The courts look poorly upon LL’s who claim ignorance. Oh and the reason I know this? I was the tenant who discovered my LL hadn’t protected my deposit and didn’t intend to return it when she asked me to leave so she could sell. I refused and she served a section 21. I withheld rent to the value of my initial deposit (8 weeks rent) she withdrew the section 21 (that she didn’t realise was invalid, I hadn’t told her) and served a section 8 but immediately before court I paid the equivalent of 1 weeks rent and the section 8 failed. She then reserved the section 21 still none the wiser but now realising she would never get the rent arrears by doing so. I waited until court, attended, she did not. I presented the evidence showing the section 21 was invalid and an N1 claim for judge to decide between the minimum of £11,000 and the maximum of £118,000. He awarded me the minimum of £11,000 plus my deposit back in full so that she could re serve the section 21 as soon as the payment was made. She couldn’t afford to pay it therefore no valid section 21 and I didn’t lose my home. I chose to leave not long after but you can bet your bottom dollar I had the high court bailiffs at her door u til I got my £11,000 paid in full. Moral of the story? Don’t become a LL if you have no idea what the legislation for ast’s is. Oh and don’t think that just because you own the house you have a right to turf out legitimate tenants from their home! Good luck op 🤞

Unfortunately no mention made of communal spaces in the AST

OP posts:
betterangels · 15/08/2024 14:16

littledragon99 · 15/08/2024 13:58

I have ADHD and often need to be reminded

So, no. Isn't that what standing orders are for? You're giving them a valid reason to evict you. Can't really blame the LL.

viques · 15/08/2024 14:16

It is a HMO if you and the other tenants are unrelated, share facilities and the landlord does not live there.

Is it registered with the local authority as a HMO, most London local authorities insist on HMOs being registered. If so it should be part of the licence about how many people can live there.

friendlycat · 15/08/2024 14:17

You can’t just not pay rent and you need to pay your rent on time. If you don’t like the current arrangement you need to find somewhere else to live.

CasaBianca · 15/08/2024 14:17

littledragon99 · 15/08/2024 13:36

She said since "I have never paid my rent on time" she needs the guarenteed airbnb income from airbnb'ing out the lounge, but this is just making my anxiety levels through the roof

Are you for real? What do you think her anxiety level is when you decide to not pay your rent? You sound very self-centred.
What do you think should happen? You put her in financial difficulty and she shouldn’t donanything about it? You object to her airbnb-ing the living room while conveniently ignoring the fact that she is only doing it to make up the money you owe her.

Theweepywillow · 15/08/2024 14:17

littledragon99 · 15/08/2024 14:16

Unfortunately no mention made of communal spaces in the AST

Then she can rent it out. If you don’t like it, give notice and leave. You can’t just not pay.

and I’m sorry having adhd is no excuse for not paying your rent on time. And her renting out the living room is no excuse for you just not paying.

she needs to evict you; I would. However as said. No 9ne is going to rent to you ever again when she does.

Iseeiseeisee · 15/08/2024 14:18

littledragon99 · 15/08/2024 13:58

I have ADHD and often need to be reminded

Then you should welcome your landlord’s initiative to contact your employer so your rent is paid to them directly and you won’t need to remember nor have anyone to remind you? No?

do you think lounge is let out now so cover for your late/ unpredictable or missing payments from your room?

OlderGlaswegianLivingInDevon · 15/08/2024 14:18

You also need to clarify if the other people living in the house are tenants in an HMO or if they are there through AirB&B as there is a huge difference.

BobandRobertaSmith · 15/08/2024 14:19

You are both being unreasonable. You need to set up a standing order and pay on time. If you are having financial difficulties because you aren’t working due to your health (are you on sick leave?) you need to look into your entitlement to benefits.

If your contract says that you have shared use of the sitting room, your landlord can’t take that away. That said, expect that she will give notice if you don’t agree to it. She will definitely (and be within her rights) evict you if you withhold rent. She also can’t air b n b full time in London.

Does she have an HMO license? Gas/electricity safety certificate, EPC etc.

Start paying rent on time, get a good landlord reference, find a better landlord.

Pineapplewaves · 15/08/2024 14:19

Have you spoken to the other two tenants about the removal of the communal area? What do they think? Perhaps the three of you together need to approach the LL about a rent reduction but

Did your LL not notifying you about their decision to turn the communal area into another room? Did neither you or the other tenants notice when the room was being decorated and furnished to accommodate the extra person? The room must have been out of bounds for a while before person 3 moved in? Or was it all done in secrecy during the night? I think your time to complain about this has passed.....

No you can't withhold your rent, it sounds like you are having trouble paying it and are looking for an excuse to not pay altogether. Citizens Advice can help of you with debt and housing issues. It sounds like your LL may already have some grounds to consider eviction if you have had issues not paying rent recently, don't provoke them by arguing over the living room if you want to stay.

Cosyblankets · 15/08/2024 14:20

CaptainBolt · 15/08/2024 13:46

Maybe the landlord could get a job to pay his/her own bills.

So the landlord should pay the electricity and gas and water and council tax and tv licence on a property they don't live in? Is that what you mean?

Theweepywillow · 15/08/2024 14:22

Pineapplewaves · 15/08/2024 14:19

Have you spoken to the other two tenants about the removal of the communal area? What do they think? Perhaps the three of you together need to approach the LL about a rent reduction but

Did your LL not notifying you about their decision to turn the communal area into another room? Did neither you or the other tenants notice when the room was being decorated and furnished to accommodate the extra person? The room must have been out of bounds for a while before person 3 moved in? Or was it all done in secrecy during the night? I think your time to complain about this has passed.....

No you can't withhold your rent, it sounds like you are having trouble paying it and are looking for an excuse to not pay altogether. Citizens Advice can help of you with debt and housing issues. It sounds like your LL may already have some grounds to consider eviction if you have had issues not paying rent recently, don't provoke them by arguing over the living room if you want to stay.

At least read the thread!

GoodLordyTheExcusesWeMakeForThem · 15/08/2024 14:23

littledragon99 · 15/08/2024 14:16

Unfortunately no mention made of communal spaces in the AST

Ah then you cant use removal of them as a valid reason to withold rent, however the 8 week rule still stands. You can use this to force her hand regarding the airbnb a court would also be likely to look sympathetically on your situation given the worsening anxiety caused by this ‘venture’ of hers.

Theweepywillow · 15/08/2024 14:24

GoodLordyTheExcusesWeMakeForThem · 15/08/2024 14:23

Ah then you cant use removal of them as a valid reason to withold rent, however the 8 week rule still stands. You can use this to force her hand regarding the airbnb a court would also be likely to look sympathetically on your situation given the worsening anxiety caused by this ‘venture’ of hers.

Don’t be ridiculous .

Cosyblankets · 15/08/2024 14:24

littledragon99 · 15/08/2024 14:16

Unfortunately no mention made of communal spaces in the AST

Then there is your answer.
You rent your room
You do not rent the living room
Landlord owns the property and can do what they like. That is their right
If you don't like it you can move out. That is your right.

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