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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Witholding my rent AIBU

831 replies

littledragon99 · 15/08/2024 13:29

I'm a woman in my late 40s, living in a 3-bed Victorian terrace in West London, where I pay £1,200 a month with all bills included. I signed an AST in May.
I work in recruitment and DJ on the side. Despite being skilled in my job, financial difficulties have arisen following my mother’s death, and I've struggled with timely rent payments. I’m currently in therapy to manage my depression.
Recently, my landlady has begun Airbnb-ing the living room, removing the communal space I was paying for. Given this change, I believe the £1,200 rent is no longer justified.
Additionally, she inappropriately contacted my boss, (my boss was my reference) about paying rent directly and has threatened eviction. I’ve consulted Citizens Advice and suspect my deposit wasn’t placed in a Tenancy Deposit Scheme (TDS), which may breach legal requirements.
Due to these issues, I’ve withheld my rent since August 1st and am prepared to take further action if needed.

OP posts:
Thread gallery
9
LiterallyOnFire · 15/08/2024 14:56

I’m sure the landlord does pay their own bills on the property they live in. Why would they pay bills for other adults?

Your anger is getting in the way of your critical thinking.

I don't think you RTT properly @StormingNorman

Her "LL could get a job" comment was in reply to a post from a PP, and made perfect sense.

Fluffyelephant · 15/08/2024 14:56

littledragon99 · 15/08/2024 13:36

She said since "I have never paid my rent on time" she needs the guarenteed airbnb income from airbnb'ing out the lounge, but this is just making my anxiety levels through the roof

So the issue of you not paying the rent came first... so you can't claim you're withholding the rent because of the air bnb in the living room

CuloGrande · 15/08/2024 14:56

You sound like a very problematic tenant. Every month there is a reason it’s late or you can’t pay? If you struggle paying bills set up a direct debit so it’s done on pay day. I never side with landlords but you seem to be full of excuses as to why you can’t pay on time, none of which are anyone else’s problem.

usernamealreadytaken · 15/08/2024 14:56

ApplesOrangesBananas · 15/08/2024 14:55

Actually you can if the landlord has broken the contract ie there was a specific clause stating that the living room was long term tenants use ONLY. If a clause is broken, the contract is nullified and therefore you can withhold rent until it’s resolved.

OP has already confirmed there's no mention of communal space in the AST; she just rents a room, has never paid rent on time and is now refusing to pay rent because she is no longer able to use an area to which she has no legal right.

MintyNew · 15/08/2024 14:57

Op it seems like you have a lot on your plate but you are in a very vulnerable position here. You don't have any leg to stand on with you holding rent. You really can't be making demands or having an issue when you are at fault here too. She most likely will be serving you notice, and also you will get a bad reference if you need further rental. So best you speak to her about this, contact shelter or start looking for something else immediately as well.

OhmygodDont · 15/08/2024 14:58

The livingroom isn’t part of your ast so it’s not a reason to withhold rent.

I expect you’ll be given your notice to leave very soon anyway as you sound like a pain in the butt as a tenant regarding never not once paying rent on time. You’ve been there 5 months and been late every month and one of them you skipped entirely and paid the month after.

You’ve got bigger issue than the livingroom now being a bedroom. A issue you created yourself by being unreliable.

Theweepywillow · 15/08/2024 14:59

littledragon99 · 15/08/2024 14:45

every single month if i'm honest

Op, five months in you’ve been late or not paid, you’re now withholding rent on the premise of objecting to her renting the living room. Which you do not pay for and know full well you’re not entitled to. There is no longevity of relationship here.

do you have the money? If so pay the rent. If not then you can’t pay but get onto the council and shelter as it is over whelmingly likely you will be homeless and need to be housed in a few months.

WallaceinAnderland · 15/08/2024 14:59

So you want to be able to live rent free, or just paying some or late payments and you want use of another room that you're not paying for either and you think that's reasonable?

Really?

murasaki · 15/08/2024 14:59

She's probably air bnbing the living room to cover the fact that your rent is always late.

WiddlinDiddlin · 15/08/2024 15:00

You cannot withhold rent to make any sort of a point.

That just gives her a clear legal reason to evict you, so thats stupid.

You should pay your rent on time, again thats giving her reason to evict you - sent it up via a DD or SO.

The way to alter things, if it is possible to do this and it might not be, she could simply not renew your contract once it is up, and evict you that way...

Is to find out if shes breaching her HMO licence.

She will be licenced for a certain number of tenants/rooms - it sounds like at least originally, that was 3 rooms, and she has now turned the communal living space into a 4th room. If she is still licenced only for 3 rooms, then she could be in the shit legally and with the local authority that issued the licence.

They don't HAVE to provide a communal living room...

But only if the kitchen is big enough! You'll need to contact your local authority to find out a/ if the kitchen is big enough to allow the landlord to not provide a communal living room and b/ if there is a licence for 4 rooms.

Then you may have something in your favour - however your history of not paying rent on time and now withholding rent is not going to help matters at all - I would suggest you pay rent on time, every time and pay the outstanding money now, or find somewhere else to rent.

If you do try to take on the landlord there is a good chance that even if its clear they are not following their licence, they will find a way to evict you.

Iseeiseeisee · 15/08/2024 15:00

Given op is clearly in a vulnerable position, I would think the shelter advice is the best.

followed by op focusing her energies on sorting herself out by 1) paying off the rent arrears; 2) pay future rent on time and if all that is not possible 3) going to Council to advice them you are vulnerable and need help with your mental health, housing etc and follow their advice.

caringcarer · 15/08/2024 15:01

Comefromaway · 15/08/2024 14:43

Not necessarily true in London. Most local authority areas require HMO's to be licensed and the licence will specify the number of occupants allowed. There are also rules about sizes etc of bedrooms and whether there need to be locks on doors

Look carefully at what the tenancy agreement says about communal spaces plus how it was advertised and contact Shelter ASAP.

But don't withold rent.

Yes licensing specifies size of individual rooms, size of communal spaces eg. kitchen but to get the licence in the first place the building would need to meet licensing regulations. If a house share is licensed for 4 rooms but only has 2 rooms let out the LL still has the right to let out the other 2 unoccupied rooms. It sounds from OP's post like only 2 rooms were originally let out once she moved in. Now LL has let out another room but as an Airbnb. A house with only 2 rooms to let doesn't even need a license. Only 3 rooms or more let to unrelated people need a license.

blackcherryconserve · 15/08/2024 15:01

LadyGabriella · 15/08/2024 14:44

Ok I’ve just re read your post. If you are paying for a room only then that changes things. Yes the landlord is being unreasonable for air bnb ing the living room - that’s incredibly greedy. I agree you should have access to it as your communal
living space.

But that is not in the contract AFAIK. It seems LL is within her rights to use it for another tenant especially as OP is unreliable paying her rent. This may well mean LL is not getting what she needs to pay the mortgage.

Craftycariad · 15/08/2024 15:03

TwinklyAmberOrca · 15/08/2024 13:33

So do you live in the 3 bed ALONE?

The mention of communal area and all bills included hints that you live with your landlady and would therefore be a LODGER and not a tenant.

Lodgers have far fewer rights and their deposits do not need to be protected.

No it is a house of multiple occupation not a resident lol from what she said. It would appear she is in breech of contract if the communal space is agreed.

littledragon99 · 15/08/2024 15:03

caringcarer · 15/08/2024 15:01

Yes licensing specifies size of individual rooms, size of communal spaces eg. kitchen but to get the licence in the first place the building would need to meet licensing regulations. If a house share is licensed for 4 rooms but only has 2 rooms let out the LL still has the right to let out the other 2 unoccupied rooms. It sounds from OP's post like only 2 rooms were originally let out once she moved in. Now LL has let out another room but as an Airbnb. A house with only 2 rooms to let doesn't even need a license. Only 3 rooms or more let to unrelated people need a license.

I don't think she has an HMO licence since she seems a bit ADHD herself honestly, she deffo didnt register my deposit with TDS so i doubt she'd have managed to sort a licence. But there are currently 2 of us with an AST and 2 randoms from airbnb that seem to change every few weeks/months

OP posts:
Allthehorsesintheworld · 15/08/2024 15:04

Witholding rent is never a good idea. Can lead to CCJ against you, wreck your credit rating, count against you when trying to rent again.
Check the house is registered as a HMO. You can check this with local council.
LL has to give you a copy of the deposit registration. The LL is entitled to keep your deposit in their own bank a/c but pays to insure it with the deposit scheme. You should also have been given a gas safety certificate ( check date) electrical safety certificate ( again check date) and a copy of your rights as a tenant. I always gave a completed legionella risk assessment and a fire risk assessment but I’m not sure if they’re compulsory. Shelter will know.
You must also have adequate smoke detectors and carbon monoxide detector/s.

As pp have said speak to Shelter. If the LL hasn’t failed on any point then you either negotiate for a reduced rent, pay agreed rent or move.

Hope you get it sorted. And I’m sorry for your loss.

florasl · 15/08/2024 15:05

You need to read your agreement, does it specify the communal areas in the agreement? If so and she’s taken one away I’d request a reduction. Don’t not pay your rent though, she’ll just give you notice for a legitimate reason.

It is likely as you are paying your rent late regularly that she’ll give notice either way.

murasaki · 15/08/2024 15:06

Given you've failed to pay your rent on time might you have missed an email about the deposit? In my old flat, i rented before it was necessary and it came in half way through, they emailed me with the details when it became law.

Bigcat25 · 15/08/2024 15:06

Don't withhold your rent - you're making your housing situation more precarious and now she's bringing your boss into it. Your boss will be less likely to provide a reference next time if you extend this out. If she's telling the truth about renting the living room bc you're unreliable, then continuing this isn't helping.

OhmygodDont · 15/08/2024 15:07

I don’t think the ops really interested in paying her rent. Just the comments to stick it to the landlord some how.

littledragon99 · 15/08/2024 15:07

florasl · 15/08/2024 15:05

You need to read your agreement, does it specify the communal areas in the agreement? If so and she’s taken one away I’d request a reduction. Don’t not pay your rent though, she’ll just give you notice for a legitimate reason.

It is likely as you are paying your rent late regularly that she’ll give notice either way.

no mention of communal rooms :( :(

OP posts:
TinkerTiger · 15/08/2024 15:07

littledragon99 · 15/08/2024 13:36

She said since "I have never paid my rent on time" she needs the guarenteed airbnb income from airbnb'ing out the lounge, but this is just making my anxiety levels through the roof

Does NOT paying your rent on time not make your anxiety skyrocket? It should. You’re being called out on your shit, don’t use anxiety to retaliate against it.

And yes, I have ADHD too, but also have a standing order for the same date every month?

Monkeysatonthewall · 15/08/2024 15:08

I'm sorry OP but you sound really irresponsible.

ADHD shouldn't be used as the reason for not paying rent in time - set up a DD.

Craftycariad · 15/08/2024 15:08

Iseeiseeisee · 15/08/2024 14:07

NC for this!

why is your age relevant in the op @littledragon99? I now understand why many LLs are reluctant to allow those from 40s(sometimes late 30s too) into rooms in shared properties (as opposed to renting whole property) .
You are not a tenant but a licensee- different protection and yours are fewer!

saying you rent a room in a property should have been enough for anyone- even your gender is irrelevant. Really curious!

Edited

The landlord is not resident so he is a tenant if he has a specific space, for a specific sum , for a specific period as that is a definition of a tenant .

Brainded · 15/08/2024 15:08

littledragon99 · 15/08/2024 15:03

I don't think she has an HMO licence since she seems a bit ADHD herself honestly, she deffo didnt register my deposit with TDS so i doubt she'd have managed to sort a licence. But there are currently 2 of us with an AST and 2 randoms from airbnb that seem to change every few weeks/months

With all due respect @littledragon99 whether she has an HMO licence or not is not your business as such. You are using this as. Smokescreen…YOU need to pay your rent. End of discussion.