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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Witholding my rent AIBU

831 replies

littledragon99 · 15/08/2024 13:29

I'm a woman in my late 40s, living in a 3-bed Victorian terrace in West London, where I pay £1,200 a month with all bills included. I signed an AST in May.
I work in recruitment and DJ on the side. Despite being skilled in my job, financial difficulties have arisen following my mother’s death, and I've struggled with timely rent payments. I’m currently in therapy to manage my depression.
Recently, my landlady has begun Airbnb-ing the living room, removing the communal space I was paying for. Given this change, I believe the £1,200 rent is no longer justified.
Additionally, she inappropriately contacted my boss, (my boss was my reference) about paying rent directly and has threatened eviction. I’ve consulted Citizens Advice and suspect my deposit wasn’t placed in a Tenancy Deposit Scheme (TDS), which may breach legal requirements.
Due to these issues, I’ve withheld my rent since August 1st and am prepared to take further action if needed.

OP posts:
Thread gallery
9
friendlycat · 17/08/2024 23:23

So to sum this up …
You had a business that failed
You had to leave your property in Oxford due to repossession
You made a new start in sales in London giving your boss as a referee
With crippling debts you rent a room in a house in west London that’s expensive even though there are many cheaper options at significantly less each month
You have paid your rent late every month
Now you aren’t paying rent at all and are looking avoidance tactics
You want the security of staying there but not paying
You are constantly using coke at the weekends which costs money
But you have no money to pay rent

You are living in complete denial if any of this is true

DeccaM · 17/08/2024 23:28

littledragon99 · 17/08/2024 18:21

I got offered a good job and was trying to have a new start. Full transparency I take coke at the weekends as it works as anti-depressant and helps with my severe ADHD. I can see this will make the most patient of posters lose hope here so I’ll probably sign off and say thankyou for all your advice you’ve all been patient and mostly kind

Oh, for the love of God. 🤦‍♀️

Are you actually for real? 🤔

You're nearly 50 years old, can't afford to keep a roof over your head, you're chasing a dream that you'll make money as a DJ, you're diagnosed (self-diagnosed?) with ADHD, and you spend what little money you have on coke? Seriously?

Yeah, I would imagine that anyone on this thread who had any sympathy for you has just lost that sympathy completely. Get off the internet and do something productive. Like find a new place to live and a full-time job. And get help with your addiction to cocaine.

OlderGlaswegianLivingInDevon · 17/08/2024 23:31

@friendlycat

you missed out the ADHT which makes her forget to pay the rent.

so one can only guess she forgot to pay invoices that were due to the business
and she forgot to pay the mortgage

murasaki · 17/08/2024 23:32

Do you not think it's a bit tragic to be taking coke at nearly 50? Particularly when you might become homeless over it? You will never make enough money to live from being a dj. Accept that. And I think your current boss will have a massive red flag against you now the landlady has quite reasonably contacted him, so you'll probably lose that job soon too.

friendlycat · 17/08/2024 23:35

OlderGlaswegianLivingInDevon · 17/08/2024 23:31

@friendlycat

you missed out the ADHT which makes her forget to pay the rent.

so one can only guess she forgot to pay invoices that were due to the business
and she forgot to pay the mortgage

Yes those can also be added to the list.

People have given the OP advice. But they aren’t listening at all.

Not sure that it matters as not sure this is true actually.

JonHammFan · 18/08/2024 02:04

littledragon99 · 17/08/2024 18:32

To get adhd meds you have to have a psych assessment which is in the thousands !

So you're not professionally diagnosed then, because you haven't had a psych assessment because they're costly. You have self diagnosed ADHD.
Self-medicating with coke will not work for you long term. It is also not cheap. And I won't even get into the morality of how buying coke supports drug cartels who murder many innocents.
You are severely compromising your mental and physical health with your extremely erratic lifestyle. Please get some help.

JMSA · 18/08/2024 02:24

The problems arose when you started paying your rent late. And now not at all.
You sound like a difficult tenant, but I am sorry for the loss of your mum.

JMSA · 18/08/2024 02:34

I've just read that you're either late with the rent or not paying EVERY MONTH.
You're a fucking nightmare.

Myahee · 18/08/2024 06:25

IDontHateRainbows · 17/08/2024 20:07

This is textbook how people become street homeless.... get a drug habit, prioritise any money on drugs, get behind on rent, get evicted. OP please sort yourself out before it comes to that.

If it's real, it's already come to that.

OP won't be entitled to any council or other funded help, they will be evicted and homeless.

Hard to think anyone could actually be this dumb, though.

GoodLordyTheExcusesWeMakeForThem · 18/08/2024 10:10

AquaFurball · 17/08/2024 17:37

You don't have proof that LL doesn't live there at all. Two rooms are AST, yours is 6 months. The other may have a similar ending date. Another room is Air BnB, your LL hasn't officially moved out at all if her stuff is also still in the house. She could have been moving in to help a relative for a few months or trialling living with a new partner for all you know.

If the LL lived there it wouldn't be an ast it woupd be a lodger agreement. Then no deposit protection would be required. By protecting the deposit, albeit late, the LL confirmed she does not live in the property

GoodLordyTheExcusesWeMakeForThem · 18/08/2024 11:00

@littledragon99 i am sorry for the judgement you’ve received from multiple posters about your mental health issues and lifestyle choices, none of which have any relevance to your original question. It’s nothing less than shameful. So after a day and night of total AuADHD hyper focus and deep dive research, I can now answer as many of your questions as possible.

  1. no it is not legal for your LL to be renting the third room out to Airbnb guests. In London she must gain planning permission to rent any room for more than 90 days in any one Callander year. Without this planning permission, she will face planning enforcement from the council and they treat breaches of these planning permissions very seriously. This is due to people like your LL flouting the rules and depriving the market of rental property and falsely inflating the market value of rental properties. The short term rental market (less than 90 days in any one Callander year) can only be legal if she also is liable for council tax in that property. Which she can’t be due to you and another tenant having ast’s. So she is definitely showing flagrant disregard of the legislation. She is not able to take advantage of the short term rental market. This also goes for the rental of the living room. you can find out if she has the required planning permission and if not report her to the council, this solves your anxiety over the loss of the room and having randoms living in close proximity to you.
  2. The loss of the living room, IS the loss of a communal space which you have the use of. It is implied even if not explicitly stated in your ast. The kitchen and bar are also not explicitly mentioned and yet clearly you have and can reasonably expect use of them.
  3. you should not withhold your rent but should you do so, you need to keep it below 8 weeks equivalent.
  4. your LL can’t move back in to the property, to do so she would have to rely on a section 8 eviction under clause 1. She would have to have given you notice of her ability to rely on this before the tenancy began. She did not because it is not stated in your ast. Should she move back in, this would be seen as interfering with your right as a tenant to peaceful occupation of your home.
  5. your LL may give you notice to end the tenancy but this must give you two months notice as per the ast and as such your ast would have already converted to a periodic tenancy incurring a further compensation claim for further tenancy deposit protection infractions etc of a minimum 1x the deposit and up to 3x. It would also render any section 21 invalid until the required prescribed information is supplied and the deposit returned in full.
  6. please do not do, as we with ADHD are inclined to do, do NOT tell her any of this information. It is not in your interest. It will only show your hand and give her time to prepare. As you’ve already discovered, she is willing to do this by protecting the deposit late after you told her about the protection requirement.
  7. Your issues and lifestyle choices are irrelevant to these breaches of legislation, they trump contract law every time and the legislation is in place specifically to protect tenants from bad LL’s like you have. Ignorance of the law is not ever an excuse. It is her responsibility to know the legislation and to ensure she adheres to it. That is not a point of debate.
  8. please make sure you are mentally, emotionally and physically safe in the home and collect all the evidence to make sure you are prepared to fight your corner in court. You can bet your arse, she won’t be.
I have lost no sympathy for you. Anyone who is, was or will be in your situation will always be sympathetic. Anyone who is a decent person should also be able to have empathy for your plight. I know I certainly do but there are many of these forums who are incapable of empathy. Certainly few who could explain what it means anyway. If I can help you any further I will. Please pm me as I suspect you’ve been berated enough for a lifetime on this post and do not wish to engage further. I don’t blame you. All I can say is that people suck.
Butchyrestingface · 18/08/2024 11:13

I’ve a better idea. Instead of leaving OP adrift to the mercy of the cold, cruel world and evil landladies who expect to be paid for allowing someone to stay in their property, why not:

  • PM the OP with your home address so she can come live with you.
  • Also be sure to provide her with your bank account details so she can fund her cocaine habit indefinitely.
GoodLordyTheExcusesWeMakeForThem · 18/08/2024 11:14

JonHammFan · 18/08/2024 02:04

So you're not professionally diagnosed then, because you haven't had a psych assessment because they're costly. You have self diagnosed ADHD.
Self-medicating with coke will not work for you long term. It is also not cheap. And I won't even get into the morality of how buying coke supports drug cartels who murder many innocents.
You are severely compromising your mental and physical health with your extremely erratic lifestyle. Please get some help.

Your understanding of the pathway to diagnosis leave a lot to be desired. My daughter has been diagnosed because I spent thousands to get her diagnosed privately. However to get treatment and medication ( amphetamines btw) she must be diagnosed via the nhs. This has so far taken 6 years and she is still on the waiting list. As she is about to turn 18 she will now be turfed off the waiting list to start the whole process again as an adult. All to get the same assessment and diagnosis that she already has.
you then refer to the ops ‘erratic lifestyle’ which will be a direct consequence of her undiagnosed condition and then plead with her to get help. I can promise you now she has tried and no doubt failed miserably due to the way the system is set up. Just because she hasn’t spent thousands does not mean she is ‘self diagnosed’ every single doctor and specialist I have had for the past 12 years accepted readily that I had AuADHD, however until I saw a psychiatrist with the nhs who was qualified to diagnose the condition I was not able to receive treatment. I used cocain to self regulate the condition for a longtime until after diagnosis I was prescribed amphetamines. So much better for me I’m sure you’ll agree! Smh 🤦‍♀️
please educate yourself before offering such unhelpful and unnecessary advice/opinions on a post where the question from the op has no relevance to your response.

GoodLordyTheExcusesWeMakeForThem · 18/08/2024 11:18

Butchyrestingface · 18/08/2024 11:13

I’ve a better idea. Instead of leaving OP adrift to the mercy of the cold, cruel world and evil landladies who expect to be paid for allowing someone to stay in their property, why not:

  • PM the OP with your home address so she can come live with you.
  • Also be sure to provide her with your bank account details so she can fund her cocaine habit indefinitely.

If she’d like to become my live in carer I’d happily agree. As it is I’m without one which has meant one of my many genetic conditions has now become terminal, thank you nhs and shitty doctors, and am nearing the end of my life. She could even take over my social housing tenancy after I pass, thereby ensuring a home for life.

IDontHateRainbows · 18/08/2024 11:18

I got diagnosed via psychiatry uk online for £400 then into shared care with the nhs so all my meds paid for.

Nonsense to say it has to take thousands of pounds and years of waiting.

Cosyblankets · 18/08/2024 11:21

GoodLordyTheExcusesWeMakeForThem · 18/08/2024 11:00

@littledragon99 i am sorry for the judgement you’ve received from multiple posters about your mental health issues and lifestyle choices, none of which have any relevance to your original question. It’s nothing less than shameful. So after a day and night of total AuADHD hyper focus and deep dive research, I can now answer as many of your questions as possible.

  1. no it is not legal for your LL to be renting the third room out to Airbnb guests. In London she must gain planning permission to rent any room for more than 90 days in any one Callander year. Without this planning permission, she will face planning enforcement from the council and they treat breaches of these planning permissions very seriously. This is due to people like your LL flouting the rules and depriving the market of rental property and falsely inflating the market value of rental properties. The short term rental market (less than 90 days in any one Callander year) can only be legal if she also is liable for council tax in that property. Which she can’t be due to you and another tenant having ast’s. So she is definitely showing flagrant disregard of the legislation. She is not able to take advantage of the short term rental market. This also goes for the rental of the living room. you can find out if she has the required planning permission and if not report her to the council, this solves your anxiety over the loss of the room and having randoms living in close proximity to you.
  2. The loss of the living room, IS the loss of a communal space which you have the use of. It is implied even if not explicitly stated in your ast. The kitchen and bar are also not explicitly mentioned and yet clearly you have and can reasonably expect use of them.
  3. you should not withhold your rent but should you do so, you need to keep it below 8 weeks equivalent.
  4. your LL can’t move back in to the property, to do so she would have to rely on a section 8 eviction under clause 1. She would have to have given you notice of her ability to rely on this before the tenancy began. She did not because it is not stated in your ast. Should she move back in, this would be seen as interfering with your right as a tenant to peaceful occupation of your home.
  5. your LL may give you notice to end the tenancy but this must give you two months notice as per the ast and as such your ast would have already converted to a periodic tenancy incurring a further compensation claim for further tenancy deposit protection infractions etc of a minimum 1x the deposit and up to 3x. It would also render any section 21 invalid until the required prescribed information is supplied and the deposit returned in full.
  6. please do not do, as we with ADHD are inclined to do, do NOT tell her any of this information. It is not in your interest. It will only show your hand and give her time to prepare. As you’ve already discovered, she is willing to do this by protecting the deposit late after you told her about the protection requirement.
  7. Your issues and lifestyle choices are irrelevant to these breaches of legislation, they trump contract law every time and the legislation is in place specifically to protect tenants from bad LL’s like you have. Ignorance of the law is not ever an excuse. It is her responsibility to know the legislation and to ensure she adheres to it. That is not a point of debate.
  8. please make sure you are mentally, emotionally and physically safe in the home and collect all the evidence to make sure you are prepared to fight your corner in court. You can bet your arse, she won’t be.
I have lost no sympathy for you. Anyone who is, was or will be in your situation will always be sympathetic. Anyone who is a decent person should also be able to have empathy for your plight. I know I certainly do but there are many of these forums who are incapable of empathy. Certainly few who could explain what it means anyway. If I can help you any further I will. Please pm me as I suspect you’ve been berated enough for a lifetime on this post and do not wish to engage further. I don’t blame you. All I can say is that people suck.

Or.... she could just pay her rent
On time

Totallymessed · 18/08/2024 11:27

GoodLordyTheExcusesWeMakeForThem · 18/08/2024 11:00

@littledragon99 i am sorry for the judgement you’ve received from multiple posters about your mental health issues and lifestyle choices, none of which have any relevance to your original question. It’s nothing less than shameful. So after a day and night of total AuADHD hyper focus and deep dive research, I can now answer as many of your questions as possible.

  1. no it is not legal for your LL to be renting the third room out to Airbnb guests. In London she must gain planning permission to rent any room for more than 90 days in any one Callander year. Without this planning permission, she will face planning enforcement from the council and they treat breaches of these planning permissions very seriously. This is due to people like your LL flouting the rules and depriving the market of rental property and falsely inflating the market value of rental properties. The short term rental market (less than 90 days in any one Callander year) can only be legal if she also is liable for council tax in that property. Which she can’t be due to you and another tenant having ast’s. So she is definitely showing flagrant disregard of the legislation. She is not able to take advantage of the short term rental market. This also goes for the rental of the living room. you can find out if she has the required planning permission and if not report her to the council, this solves your anxiety over the loss of the room and having randoms living in close proximity to you.
  2. The loss of the living room, IS the loss of a communal space which you have the use of. It is implied even if not explicitly stated in your ast. The kitchen and bar are also not explicitly mentioned and yet clearly you have and can reasonably expect use of them.
  3. you should not withhold your rent but should you do so, you need to keep it below 8 weeks equivalent.
  4. your LL can’t move back in to the property, to do so she would have to rely on a section 8 eviction under clause 1. She would have to have given you notice of her ability to rely on this before the tenancy began. She did not because it is not stated in your ast. Should she move back in, this would be seen as interfering with your right as a tenant to peaceful occupation of your home.
  5. your LL may give you notice to end the tenancy but this must give you two months notice as per the ast and as such your ast would have already converted to a periodic tenancy incurring a further compensation claim for further tenancy deposit protection infractions etc of a minimum 1x the deposit and up to 3x. It would also render any section 21 invalid until the required prescribed information is supplied and the deposit returned in full.
  6. please do not do, as we with ADHD are inclined to do, do NOT tell her any of this information. It is not in your interest. It will only show your hand and give her time to prepare. As you’ve already discovered, she is willing to do this by protecting the deposit late after you told her about the protection requirement.
  7. Your issues and lifestyle choices are irrelevant to these breaches of legislation, they trump contract law every time and the legislation is in place specifically to protect tenants from bad LL’s like you have. Ignorance of the law is not ever an excuse. It is her responsibility to know the legislation and to ensure she adheres to it. That is not a point of debate.
  8. please make sure you are mentally, emotionally and physically safe in the home and collect all the evidence to make sure you are prepared to fight your corner in court. You can bet your arse, she won’t be.
I have lost no sympathy for you. Anyone who is, was or will be in your situation will always be sympathetic. Anyone who is a decent person should also be able to have empathy for your plight. I know I certainly do but there are many of these forums who are incapable of empathy. Certainly few who could explain what it means anyway. If I can help you any further I will. Please pm me as I suspect you’ve been berated enough for a lifetime on this post and do not wish to engage further. I don’t blame you. All I can say is that people suck.

Again. How do you suggest the OP finds another place to live, after being evicted, no matter how long it takes. It's pretty important, but you seem to be ignoring it.

Totallymessed · 18/08/2024 11:30

GoodLordyTheExcusesWeMakeForThem · 18/08/2024 11:18

If she’d like to become my live in carer I’d happily agree. As it is I’m without one which has meant one of my many genetic conditions has now become terminal, thank you nhs and shitty doctors, and am nearing the end of my life. She could even take over my social housing tenancy after I pass, thereby ensuring a home for life.

Problem solved then. DM the OP with your address and she can move in with you. End of crisis.

IDontHateRainbows · 18/08/2024 11:31

Totallymessed · 18/08/2024 11:30

Problem solved then. DM the OP with your address and she can move in with you. End of crisis.

Just hope you don't need much care when she's on a coke bender

HollyKnight · 18/08/2024 11:31

@GoodLordyTheExcusesWeMakeForThem Surely you realise all that is just a delay tactic. It's not going to stop her from being evicted. She's still going to continue spending rent money on cocain and end up homeless probably in the middle of winter.

HollyKnight · 18/08/2024 11:33

And you absolutely can be diagnosed and prescribed ADHD meds in the private sector.

JonHammFan · 18/08/2024 11:39

GoodLordyTheExcusesWeMakeForThem · 18/08/2024 11:14

Your understanding of the pathway to diagnosis leave a lot to be desired. My daughter has been diagnosed because I spent thousands to get her diagnosed privately. However to get treatment and medication ( amphetamines btw) she must be diagnosed via the nhs. This has so far taken 6 years and she is still on the waiting list. As she is about to turn 18 she will now be turfed off the waiting list to start the whole process again as an adult. All to get the same assessment and diagnosis that she already has.
you then refer to the ops ‘erratic lifestyle’ which will be a direct consequence of her undiagnosed condition and then plead with her to get help. I can promise you now she has tried and no doubt failed miserably due to the way the system is set up. Just because she hasn’t spent thousands does not mean she is ‘self diagnosed’ every single doctor and specialist I have had for the past 12 years accepted readily that I had AuADHD, however until I saw a psychiatrist with the nhs who was qualified to diagnose the condition I was not able to receive treatment. I used cocain to self regulate the condition for a longtime until after diagnosis I was prescribed amphetamines. So much better for me I’m sure you’ll agree! Smh 🤦‍♀️
please educate yourself before offering such unhelpful and unnecessary advice/opinions on a post where the question from the op has no relevance to your response.

Actually, I do completely understand the diagnostic pathway. As I mentioned upthread, I have ADHD. I have undergone assessment and been diagnosed by a psychologist. I also have lived experience of the relevant medications. And yes, I also know how long it can all take, and I have certainly educated myself about this condition.

So while you personally may find my advice and opinions unhelpful, I stand by my response. You can't deny that the OP needs help and I recommended that she tries to get it. Her lifestyle is erratic. Nowhere did I say this is not a consequence of ADHD. However, it is a fact that what she says she is currently doing isn't helping.

What I said is actually relevant to her original question as it became clear that she wasn't paying rent because she has ADHD. Therefore my post was that she get help for her ADHD. The difficulty she has found herself in appears to be correlated with some poor choices. Having ADHD is very difficult I know but it doesn't absolve one of seeking help and following recommended strategies however you want to paint it. By the way you also can't promise me that the OP has 'tried to get help' because presumably you don't know her personally.

In your other posts I have read that you're very unwell. I am sorry to hear it and hope you get all the help you need.

GoodLordyTheExcusesWeMakeForThem · 18/08/2024 11:49

Tiredofallthis101 · 17/08/2024 21:09

Ah great, if you're on coke you have a dealer. Ask him for ADJD meds instead of coke and you're golden...

😐

You mean amphetamines vs coke i assume? Because thats what adhd meds are

GoodLordyTheExcusesWeMakeForThem · 18/08/2024 11:53

JonHammFan · 18/08/2024 11:39

Actually, I do completely understand the diagnostic pathway. As I mentioned upthread, I have ADHD. I have undergone assessment and been diagnosed by a psychologist. I also have lived experience of the relevant medications. And yes, I also know how long it can all take, and I have certainly educated myself about this condition.

So while you personally may find my advice and opinions unhelpful, I stand by my response. You can't deny that the OP needs help and I recommended that she tries to get it. Her lifestyle is erratic. Nowhere did I say this is not a consequence of ADHD. However, it is a fact that what she says she is currently doing isn't helping.

What I said is actually relevant to her original question as it became clear that she wasn't paying rent because she has ADHD. Therefore my post was that she get help for her ADHD. The difficulty she has found herself in appears to be correlated with some poor choices. Having ADHD is very difficult I know but it doesn't absolve one of seeking help and following recommended strategies however you want to paint it. By the way you also can't promise me that the OP has 'tried to get help' because presumably you don't know her personally.

In your other posts I have read that you're very unwell. I am sorry to hear it and hope you get all the help you need.

It took me 12 years to get diagnosed and my erratic lifestyle combine with a shitshow of crappy doctors and an nhs sytem that is not for purpose has meant my genetic condition is now terminal. There is no ‘help’ for a terminal illness. The op seeking help does not guarantee help. Also it requures a qualified psychiatrist to gain a recognised diagnosis of adhd, if you also want to be prescribed medication

HollyKnight · 18/08/2024 11:53

GoodLordyTheExcusesWeMakeForThem · 18/08/2024 11:49

You mean amphetamines vs coke i assume? Because thats what adhd meds are

Not all ADHD meds are stimulants.