to feel quite shocked that DH has PTSD from teaching?

[FunnysInLaJardin]

Its feels pretty awful tbh. He has just today received this diagnosis and has been referred for priority EMDR.

He has taught for 25 years in a secondary school, and got out last year due to clinically diagnosed burn out.

I knew it was bad, but I never realised it was this bad.

How can this be allowed to happen?

@Differentstarts it's a good question and you're right, but it feels difficult to leave. I'm going into my 5th year now and will be going on mat leave partway through. I have stayed at my new school because DH and I moved to a new area so I needed a job here, and then we needed a mortgage, then we wanted to TTC.

I think a big issue for teachers looking to move (I've worked in private and third sector before) is our notice periods are huge. If I wanted to give notice to leave at Christmas, I have to tell the school before October half term. To give notice before the start of a new school year eg Sept, I have to tell the school by end of May that year. We also have a real lack of flexibility so that makes interviews tough - we have to tell the school we're interviewing or applying for jobs, rather than once we're handing our notice in.

It also feels hard to emphasise transferable skills. I've worked in different sectors and I still worry that I'll need to take a junior or entry level job because my non teaching experience is too long ago or doesn't seem relevant. Much harder for people who've been in teaching for longer. That usually comes with a big pay cut as well which not everyone can afford.

I think we're usually so in "battle" mode during term time then burned out over the holidays that it's easy to drift and before you know it, it's another school year and you're still stuck. More experienced teachers possibly holding out for pensions. There's also a huge pressure within schools not to complain, toughen up, come in every day or it will impact the kids and other staff.

Changing schools can help but isn't a guarantee things will be better. I'm at an "easier" (teachers don't seem to get physically attacked) school and I'm hoping to come back part time after mat leave and review my options but long term really want to quit teaching. The joy is just sucked out by the relentless workload, scrutiny and undermining.

@NameChanged112 where have you been over the last decade or so, if you think that teachers haven't been shouting from the rooftops about this? The unions and teachers have been pushing the government on this and actually talking industrial action, not over pay but over conditions and the workload landed on them by government 'initiatives'.

You can get PTSD for all sort of reasons. for example parents having an affair as a child. Not just being in a war or a car crash etc. please do educate yourself on this as what you said is coming across as offensive. I think this poor man’s drs know more than you!

I should imagine that people voting YANBU are voting because they’re not surprised he has PTSD, and maybe the people voting YABU think you’re U to be shocked because it isn’t really a surprise. In other words no-one is surprised and everyone feels for your DH and for you.

It’s such a tough job, I wouldn’t do it for £1million. I’m sorry this has happened to your DH OP.

Or actually nearly everyone (judging by the response I just read above)

I think the voting options aren't clear.

I voted YABU as I am not remotely surprised that teaching caused PTSD.

However YANBU that it is awful that this is the state of teaching today.

I think the reasons you've mentioned are very valid and absolutely agree when your managing fine but just dislike it but where your at a point of mental illness/panic attacks/suicidal thoughts ect or your working in a school where your being physically attacked and threatened with knives and rape then none of them things do matter and surely you would just leave. Go to the drs get signed of and use that time to interview and get another job any job cleaner, mcdonalds, retail anything you can still do uni alongside it to get a different job at the same time. As someone who has suffered severe mental illness their whole life it's not worth it especially when it's caused by something you have control over as adults.

It's hard to get out as its not easy to leap into another profession. It's not like you jsut change to a different company and it's different it's completely systemic though Education.

I found there was a tiny window once a year I felt I could look for jobs as I didn't want to let my A level classes down. If you leave mid year you know it's likely they won't replace you and that's several classes grade/uni that will be affected.

My career is screwed. At 45 I'm looking at entry level jobs and I have 2 degrees and I'm a bloody good teacher. My experience is far from unusual. The statistics of people leaving teaching speak for themselves and Noble Giraffe has regularly posted about this.

And yes Funnys please don't be upset by the voting they're saying "it's not surprising" because teaching is shit not that you shouldn't have been surprised. I think nearly everyone has utmost sympathy/empathy for you and your husband and are aware of the huge knock on effect it has on everything.

It isn't even like just leaving a job it's the mental health toll and the self esteem as well as a change of identity. It's so hard.

@BossMadam Teachers do get abused, often several times daily, for up to an hour each time. I started teaching 20 years ago. At the time, I'd have one or two classes I wouldn't look forward to, knowing they were extremely tough due to a few of "those" students (the ones intentionally ruining my lesson).

Nowadays, I may have one or two classes if I'm lucky where this disruption doesn't occur on a regular basis. Almost every class has two or more students in them who are hell-bent on destroying learning. They do that by throwing objects, punching things, swearing at each other and me, severe gaslighting backed up by their mates (you can watch them say/ do something and they swear they didn't and get backed up by others in the classroom), twisting your words, threatening you.

The last one has a huge impact now, because they often don't physically threaten you. No, instead there are a number of students now using "safeguarding" to threaten your livelihood.

I've had a colleague in my last job repeatedly being accused of getting into a student's face and shouting at them when in reality he'd raised his voice to prevent that student from getting injured. He got dragged into safeguarding by one particular student so often that he now has a mark on his file - never anything proven, but a "concern".

I have had another colleague in a previous school falsely accused of sexual misconduct because the student had taken a dislike to him. Suspended, had to leave because the rumour went around students and he was systematically bullied.

Every joke you make, every slight negative remark, every action can be twisted and it only takes one student to make an accusation for your job to fall apart. This is where real stress comes from for a lot of teachers now; you have to watch every word you say and everything you do so carefully. You're on constant high alert.

Add to that the lack of breaks (try being on a heavy period day and not being able to go to the loo because you teach and then have break duty, so you have to last 5+ hours without toilet access and stress about leaking), the regular 12-hour days, high-stakes observations where you have to perform no matter what the situation and often very short deadlines for just abut anything and teachers are on perma-stress for up to 8 weeks at a time each half-term.

Yes, that easily leads to PTSD.

Yes, you are right. This is offensive to teachers.

Have some sympathy for the poor teacher who is the subject of the thread and for the many other reading, who have been similarly affected. And yes, they are leaving FFS. In their droves.

@Differentstarts yes you're so right, I think it can all seem impossible or overwhelming so you almost can't see the wood for the trees and it ends up making health issues a lot worse because you didn't get signed off when needed. I still definitely struggle with that, there often feels like a lot of guilt and pressure from everyone at school to keep turning up regardless. You're very right though, no job is worth it and leaving for a lesser paid job is often not as bad as we think as long as there's other financial or family support.

TLDR warning

I've worked in the classroom for over thirty years now, although nowadays somewhat less as I have additional responsibilities.. .
All together I've been assaulted seven times.
The first time I was assaulted (stabbed in the hand with a pencil) was about 15 years ago. I was granted a week's leave, the girl responsible was excluded for a week, and forced to apologise to me both to my face and in writing. When she returned after her exclusion she was banned from certain areas of the school and not allowed to go out for breaktime for an additional month. It was impressed on me throughout that it would legitimate for me to pursue police action for assault.

The other 6 times I have been assaulted have been in the last 5 years, and no consequence was issued to any of the six children. Twice I was taken to the HT and warned on the strength of the story which the kids got in with first.

So I had a dustbin thrown at me by some kids who I had blocked from onscreen gaming during my computer based lesson. It hit my head. I shouted both in pain and at the children, and the upshot of all of this was I was warned the next day for using the word "crap" in front of the class. Note on file.
Another one of the times I had a sharp object thrown into my face by a boy who I had asked to stop wandering the room. I left the room (and the class) in tears and I was disciplined for doing so. In subsequent lessons I had no choice but to let the boy continue wandering the room.
Another time I had a boy take my personal bag from under my table and kick it round the room. And eventually out of the window. I attempted a sanction and wrote a letter of complaint to his head of year too, and mysteriously the next week I was observed every time I taught this kid, and then told my lessons were not adapted for his specific needs. (Not true, I should add, and irrelevant as he would not even sit down and log on).

So it will resonate with any teachers reading this, there comes a time when you follow the path of least resistance, plan your lesson, deliver your lesson, watch scores and scores of kids ignore your lesson, and focus on the small minority who are attentive like owls.
And yeah, you go home and have a small breakdown every evening before drying your eyes to prepare tomorrow's lessons.

I expect any HeadTeachers out there might be too busy to read this thread, but it needs to be said, if they behave in your school it's because your HT has strategised behaviour as really important. Sadly too many HTs have to spend all their time on the nuts and bolts to stay afloat, which is funding, staffing, and floods and floods of nonsense parental concerns, and if behaviour issues are escalated to them they give short shrift in response.. They don't have time, so they make it the teacher's fault.

I have never once heard of a teacher who deserved to be assaulted, and yet all of us in education know of teachers/TAs/site staff who have been told they were assaulted because they did something wrong. Institutional gaslighting.

That's it. There's the breakdown.

This. I would always put health above anything else

So I assume you've left and are hopefully now happier in your new job

@NameChanged112 it is awful yes and I also really feel for the students I've taught who've had to put up with disgusting behaviour from classmates. Students vaping in class next to them (which is so bloody difficult for us to catch unless you happen to walk through some cherry vapour and spot who's doing it), disruption and disrespect, putting them at physical risk. I've taught so many amazing kids, many from very low income households but who are desperate to succeed and feel so sorry for them when this is the environment they have to learn in.

It's actually made even more frustrating when we're undermined when trying to discipline or ask those students to leave class and they're brought back, or detentions are deleted for some nonsense reason. My current school has less physical risk to teachers but there's definitely loose behaviour standards and disrespect/disruption. But a real culture of bending backwards for parents if there is any pushback at all. Students who have ruined a class with disruption can argue their detention should be deleted because each sanction step wasn't written on the board as it was issued (even if it was - leadership don't fact-check).

I think as others have said, teachers have been speaking out about it and you're right to be concerned, but I think our concerns around conditions and behaviour often get drowned out or not listened to. For example during the strikes, I think the media focus was only on pay and how they affected working parents. Anecdotally, I don't think people really understand the reality of what schools are coping with (financially, behaviour, workload and stress etc) unless they actually know a teacher or former teacher. I really worry about what education is going to look like going forward as the retention crisis is absolutely dire - and that's from someone hoping to contribute to it by leaving teaching! It's just unsustainable and unfortunately the government, unions, leadership are not taking any meaningful action and teachers are being forced to vote with our feet.

This.

We are so conditioned to think school is ‘normal’ that we don’t think deeply about what is actually happening to our young people inside the institution. It is a system based on a total inequality of power where the pupil has no say whatsoever and is expected to toe the line and learn what is deemed important by the system.

School is also a mirror for what is happening in our society. You can’t have this conversation without talking about poverty, inequality, hopelessness and lack of prospects.

The system has also run its course. It hasn’t kept up with the changes in our modern world. Reminds me of the saying ‘the definition of madness is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results’. School is probably the only institution in our society that hasn’t evolved with time. It’s stuck in a timewarp and in fact is worse than ever since becoming exam factories.

You must be in a very good school then. I teach in a deprived area and violence is a daily occurrence.

I don't know what the % of job related ptsd is per industry but I do know that people have ptsd from all types of relentless experiences which your job is. I imagine it's also higher in teaching because teachers don't leave their jobs so readily. I think it must be higher in all customer facing roles where's there's no respite from interacting with others.

Never been a teacher, but I was in a retail job where I was bullied that damaged my mental health and was very stressful, I ended up wanting to injure myself so I wouldn't have to go in. Now I was lucky, I was still living with my parents at that time and after speaking to them I did indeed quit the job. If I was going through that right now? I have bills to pay, a roof to keep over my and my family's head, food to buy - walking out is not an option.

But here's the thing, when I was going through that in work I was in no fit state to look for a new job. I did try and actually got an interview where my DM was working at the time and completely screwed it up, did the same for an interview for a different retail job. I was just in no fit state to do well in interviews.

To add to the good points made above, it can be hard to leave because many people who go into teaching do so because they're the kind of people who want to help, make a difference, and so on, so it's hard to leave your exam groups in the lurch. You really do feel responsible for your classes. Similarly to why many healthcare professionals work themselves into the ground - a huge amount of the work which is done for the public good is propped up by "goodwill", at the expense of those providing it.

It's also hard to think straight about potential other options and plans when you're that stressed and working so many hours. Some people upthread have been saying (as some always do) that teachers act like their jobs are so much worse than others and are making a fuss, but you do realise that lots of us are saying we HAVE left, often many years ago, and still maintain that teaching was worse? And that teaching is a very common career to move into in your 30s or 40s, after doing other jobs?

I also want to echo the poster who said they wouldn't go back for a million pounds. I remember having that exact thought when deciding whether to leave - that there was no incentive that could possibly make me stay.

I am puzzled by this specific idea that teachers will be worried about an influx of pupils who would previously have been privately educated:

• State school PANs and admissions arrangements are not changing. If a school has historically had places, yes, those may now be filled, but if eg a school had a PAN of 240, and is full, the change to VAT will only mean a slight change in the exact children admitted into Y7 or exactly who is given a place from the top of the waiting list.
• The additional children needing places, who would previously have gone to private schools, will generally be ‘easy’ pupils - relatively able, involved parents, few indicators of deprivation, generally fluent English. For schools whose last big influx was of refugee children from war-affected areas of Ukraine, with no English and significant levels of trauma, additional previously-private pupils is not something they lose sleep about.

The greatest difficulty for schools is likely to be - in my experience of accepting children from private schools into a state school class - parental adjustment, both to the fact that their child is not necessarily ‘top of the class’ by virtue of their previous private schooling, and to a reduced level of contact / interaction with individual teachers.

Not particularly I’ve taught in two schools and there are issues between students but violence aimed at teachers is rare. I remember a teacher getting punched in the face when I was at school but they stood in a doorway to try and stop a teenager leaving the classroom. They didn’t deserve to get punched obviously but just letting them leave would have diffused the situation.

I worked in a pupil referral unit where we were categorically told we had to physically prevent students leaving the room if they were climbing out of the window or leaving via the door and that disciplinary action would be taken against us if we didn’t do this. So when a 16 stone 6 foot teenager told me to move out of the doorway or he’d rip my head off, I just let him leave. You can see how injuries happen when people are in fear of their jobs.

That’s a ridiculous rule!

Op, I'm a parent so on the other side I guess..

My dc has experienced awful bullying at school, the behavior is appalling. He's seen children behave disgracefully towards staff and he's in year 6.

Playing out, we've had so many issues with other children's behavior...swearing, fighting, threatening with guns (dad has firearms), called gay, chocked, bitten, kicked, pushed, hit ect, called names and left out and when you speak to the parents they kick off, minimise, deflect, deny their sensitive little angel would ever do a thing and always say my dc has done things (the why haven't you brought it up with me until I brought up your child's behavior?!)... You get no where with them, my dc can't play out because it's gotten so bad and these aren't rough families, but professionals in some cases...no adult supervision, no boundaries, no consequences, no accountability...and these children become teenagers/young people and then adults...and we wonder why we have the society that we do? I feel really sorry for NHS staff, police, paramedics, retail staff, teachers and school staff, neighbours, children in the same class.... because it is sheer hell being around these people.

They are unkind, rude, loud, obnoxious, disagreeable, can't emotionally regulate, swearing all the time, drop litter everywhere, lack manners or common decency with no thought or consideration for anyone but themselves.

And woe betide anyone who dares to point out their behaviour...