Why do so many posters hate mothers/children

[Sundayschool]

Inspired a bit by the current thread on SMP!

Why does Mumsnet, predominately/historically a forum for parents, attract so many posters who seem to hate children and mothers? It surprises me how fast posters are to tear down any women who want better conditions for themselves or their children or indeed anything to make life a bit easier (parent/child spaces, better SMP).

Why do such people choose to post on this site in particular? Surely if you really feel so strongly this is the last place you would think to come and post?

Give over @Goldenbear. Thinking that no one owes us a paid year off work every time we have a child, doesn't make me a man. I think 6 months at full pay would be pretty good. Obviously if an employer wants to offer more that's their prerogative, I just don't think they or the state should be compelled to.

Equality legislation is all very well and may protect existing employees, but it didn't stop employers from quietly not hiring young women as new employees, esp in smaller businesses where they just can't absorb the cost of it.

Yes it is noticeable but I also think there are many men on here now with not so honourable agendas or who are very conservative with a small C and have old fashioned views on how women should behave.

Personally I don't think having 6 months of paid leave would be that hard going or unreasonable to expect a return to work after that point

With due respect, I don't think this poster has much experience in how babies "work". My child had colic until they were 10 months old, and they cried incessantly. I didn't sleep longer than 4 hours a night (apart from few blissful odd nights) until then. There is no way I could have done my job at 6 months. I could barely walk. I also exclusively breastfed, and breastfeeding is proven to give babies the best start in life. Should I have lost my job?

What about single parents who have no shared parental help? Where do they stick their 6m old?

I have just hired a visibly pregnant women for my team. Attitudes only change if you strive for it instead of accepting status quo. We might not be Denmark, but that's not a reason to not strive for better conditions. healthier, happier parents at work benefit everyone; healthier, better educated kids benefit the whole society (including you, when they do your palliative care)

Well said.

@Pigtailsandall I've had 4 kids - I know well enough how babies work I've had all sorts of experience working as a pg woman, going back to work, sah.
Still don't think any of it is the employer's responsibility to pay for - they've hired someone to do a job and it's not unreasonable to expect them to be there to do it.

Why do you think your employer owes it to you to keep a job open and pay you to sah with your 10 month old? Why should that be more important to your employer than say, an employee who wants to stay home and nurse their dying parent? No one would expect that or feel an entitlement to it, even though it would be beneficial to the employee. There are lots of situations where an employee would benefit from sah for an extended period of time. Six months isn't nothing.

Lots of reasons but the main one being WOMENS RIGHTS and not reverting to the dark ages!

Lol, I actually had 13 months off, so please do roll in the indigation of it.

@ABirdsEyeView read up on child development and maternal health. Maternity leave is not just a jolly.

How surprising, the OP never returned to back up her post

Call me unreasonable, but why shouldn't they be? I have watched so many men (it's always single men in flash cars) park in parent and child spaces while I struggled to get the pram and car seat out of a cramped space with fast moving traffic in car parks. Why should something that is designated to make parents lives, especially those with young babies and young children, easier and safer be abused by an entitled few? And why do so many women defend it? People parking in these spots without children are generally entitled cunts.

I have seen many people abuse parent and child spaces - men and women.

Usually it's not about the parent and child spaces themselves, which I think most people vaguely support without particularly strong feelings either way. Those threads always go to shit though because inevitably someone comes along and likens them to blue badge spaces, and then someone else says that people with blue badges shouldn't park in P&C, and then someone else says they don't agree with elderly or disabled people without blue badges using P&C either. Basically, the threads descend into ableism that's nothing to do with parenting but doesn't paint parents in a great light.

Most offenders I see have children old enough to not need a P:& C space. Some parents seem to view them as there for anybody with children under 18.

I agree with you OP. It comes out in conversations about plane seats and working arrangements, especially Christmas. People without children are very full of "my rights" and "your lifestyle choice", but don't think about the welfare of children at all, and whatever choices you make (and having children is not always a choice, and shouldn't ever be compared to other lifestyle decisions - going ski-ing, getting a guinea pig....) you were once a child and benefitted from society making adjustments for you, so why not do your own bit now?
I think part of the problem is that these threads by mothers for mothers are dominated by a small group of people who say they don't "hate" mothers/children, but then are endlessly obsessed with never having to assist in any way. It's like the way people say they aren't racist, but just don't like funny religions or clothes or people not supporting England at cricket/football, or speaking a strange language to their children......yeah, they are not racist.
I'm not saying you can't hold some of these opinions and not hate mothers/children, but there are quite a few posters who are obsessed with saying these things. And they do hate mothers/children.

We have a shortage of children. I don't care if you have loads of savings, you will still need workers in the future to spend your savings on, otherwise it's just monopoly money. By not having them, you are getting a great deal out of life. That's fine. But paying tax to help mothers/children, and which ultimately helps you a lot too, when unlike the mothers you are doing pretty much none of the work, is a real boon for you.

I didn't see the thread on mat pay/leave - don't think it should be a year of full pay, but would support six months of that fwiw.

I'm unthreading myself from this, because I don't want all the vitriol.....

Getting annoyed at parents who insist on not paying to book seats together and then expecting people to move who have paid extra is not like being racist.

She didn't say it was... What you've done there is take a snippet of what she's said, added your own snippet from elsewhere and created a new sentence to discredit her whole paragraph to try to create an argument. So annoying when people do this.

I agree with you OP. It comes out in conversations about plane seats and working arrangements, especially Christmas. People without children are very full of "my rights" and "your lifestyle choice", but don't think about the welfare of children at all…

Surely in the matter of plane seats it should be parents looking out for the welfare of their children by paying to book seats together? Not doing so and then claiming people who have paid for their seats and won’t move don’t care about the welfare of your kids is not really on is it?

I was on the Maternity pay thread. I’m a mum of 2 young kids and have received maternity pay in recent years. I was happy with what I received (12/18 weeks full pay- then half pay for a few weeks- 2 private sector jobs).

I disagreed that women receiving 6 months full pay need to receive even more SMP, when added to child benefit, it’s one of the most generous benefits already (£180 per week). The OP on that thread is fully paid for 6 months and still wants more. She was pissed off that she is expected to contribute to fill the gap in earnings for the final months of maternity leave.

How does that make me a woman and child hater? I simply believe the couple need to save up and be financially responsible for part funding maternity leave by saving and budgeting to fill the gap. Even borrowing if needs be.

I said it was entitled to expect not to put your hand in your own pocket and there was a seeming lack of gratitude for women who are older than us who fought hard for enhanced maternity pay. We are benefiting from significantly enhanced maternity pay deals in many employers thanks to them.

I do however think the statutory minimum would be tough to get by on. But the OP and most of the posters talking about their mat pay were on full pay for 6 months so this does not apply.

Stupid and ignorant post.
Take some time to look at the list of topics this site has outside of parenting then come back and respond.

We have a shortage of children. I don't care if you have loads of savings, you will still need workers in the future to spend your savings on, otherwise it's just monopoly money. By not having them, you are getting a great deal out of life. That's fine. But paying tax to help mothers/children, and which ultimately helps you a lot too, when unlike the mothers you are doing pretty much none of the work, is a real boon for you.

Should the government pay for infertile people to have endless IVF in order to try and produce children eventually?
Or should infertile people just be grateful they're "doing none of the work" that mothers are doing?

Yes perhaps the government should pay for unlimited IVF for infertile couples. It would be an investment in the future and the children produced will pay for themselves eventually as taxpayers, wealth generators and pension payers.

I am utterly sick of the recent use of the word “hate” to mean anything other than complete agreement. Hate is a very strong word and this misuse is not helpful to a constructive discussion on any topic.
People who laugh at something/someone or simply have another view point are labelled “haters”.
Complete nonsense and tells me the person using language in this way has no idea what it would feel like to be the recipient of actual hatred.

I think aibu brings out the worst in [some] people, yes. But there's a much bigger mumsnet space to explore. Some of the best advice I've received regarding SEN issues came from mumsnet. The goady, hateful posters (and there are some, yes) are few and far between - and usually they're called out by others, even on aibu.

Aa a teacher of 25 years, I have noticed more and more girls in recent years yelling 'It's not fair!" when what they really mean is 'I didn't get my own way !'