Why do so many posters hate mothers/children

[Sundayschool]

Inspired a bit by the current thread on SMP!

Why does Mumsnet, predominately/historically a forum for parents, attract so many posters who seem to hate children and mothers? It surprises me how fast posters are to tear down any women who want better conditions for themselves or their children or indeed anything to make life a bit easier (parent/child spaces, better SMP).

Why do such people choose to post on this site in particular? Surely if you really feel so strongly this is the last place you would think to come and post?

However, I have noticed some really awful attitudes to maternity leave in particular since the childfree board was created. I was an advocate for that board before it was set up but unfortunately I don't think it's been a positive thing for MN as a whole.

Since the board was created, I've seen a lot of people try to suggest that it has attracted people who want to spread hatred of mothers and provision for mothers. I'm quite cynical about this because when pressed, said posters inevitably cite threads which are full of posts from parents.

Indeed, some of the harsher posts on the SMP thread are from parents who've said that they're not in favour of increasing mat leave because what's available now is much better than it was for them.

Thsre are a lot of conversations on Mumsnet that have nothing to do with parenting, though. I’m not sure conversations about Mr Hissy or your favourite Dominos pizza really depend on someone’s parenting status!

I think a lot of people find it when doing a Google search for something.

MNHQ have made it clear that everyone is welcome, anyway.

@ttcat37 I'm sure my child free by choice status impacts my ability to chat about politics, Masterchef, cats etc. I hadn't been aware of that previously.

Having said that, I do sometimes feel uncomfortable at the level of child-bashing there is on some of the dog / cat threads. But it’s generally challenged, which is good.

I was thinking in particular of a very nasty thread on the childfree board that I was on under another username, advocating that those without DC should be allowed a sabbatical as they haven't taken maternity leave. Aside from the fact that the idea is ridiculous and anti-feminist (maternity leave isn't a holiday, and what about sick leave or other carers leave, why just mat leave?), the language used and the way new mothers were spoken about was awful.

Since that thread I have noticed similar attitudes on many other threads. I agree that some of the harshest views can be the "I coped fine in my day so you shouldn't get anything more than I did" crowd, but there's a also a hardcore minority of posters who seem to resent mothers (and new mothers in particular) getting anything. I've also seen some awful posts about young children ("Why do you think your crotch goblins should be allowed disturb my life" type stuff).

Like I say, I understand why the board was created and thought it was a great idea but unfortunately I don't think it's panned out as intended.

ETA - I was here years before even thinking of DC, so it's not that I think those without children shouldn't be on MN, but I just think that board has emboldened a nasty vibe from some.

I haven’t seen this. Disagreement doesn’t equal hate.

Yes @WickieRoy That's an example of name calling I remember. Toxic.

@Putting @ilovesooty obviously, but as it is predominantly a parenting forum, child free by choice (CFBC?) people who come on to complain that people talk about parenting, and make digs about parents (when they’ve never experienced being a parent, by choice), have got a fucking nerve.

The UK’s birth rate over the last decade has fallen by 20.5%, which is the largest drop of any of the countries in the G7 and you want to further discourage tax payers and workers of the future by degrading women’s maternity rights and I quote, “I don’t think the employer should have to keep the job open past 6 months post birth”, really? Are women that are Mothers second class citizens now? By dismissing the work of giving birth to a raising a child, women are essentially being exploited by society, the values of a society really are demonstrated by how it treats Mothers and children! The reality is the UK is way behind Europe when it comes to maternity pay, with some Scandinavian countries in particular standing out with their generous maternity leave packages. Norway gives mums 49 weeks at full pay, or 59 weeks at 80%. Sweden for example offers 480 days at home with 80% of pay covered and in Denmark, maternity leave benefits cover a 52 week period, with additional provisions for sharing paid leave between partners.

Why would you want to go backwards with women’s rights?

What does that ‘entitlement’ look like though, having children is a very political experience IMO and Mothers in particular do have to really fight for rights and fair treatment, to often on here recently this is referred to as ‘entitlement’.

Which isn't relevant to an opinion about what the level of maternity pay should be.

Bingo!
I guess I might be too late. But there is always at least one. ‘Why are women without children here. How can you discuss gardening, cats, politics, cooking, podcast, tv programmes etc without being a mother? ‘

Who on here has complained about people talking about parenting?

I don't think it's relevant that birth rate is declining. There are 60 million people in Britain - those who want kids will have them, those who prefer not to, won't. It's better that there's active choice rather than women having dc because it was expected.

I think there's the tile of unintended consequence - we want women to have opportunities, choice etc but if we make ourselves too expensive or difficult to employ, businesses will quietly just hire men instead, wherever possible.
I don't think 6 months full pay with the expectation that women return to their job and don't take several mat leaves on the bounce, to be that terrible tbh. People have to take responsibility for their own lives and can't pass the bill to their workplace or taxpayer. If the country was swimming in money, it wouldn't matter if the state paid for all this stuff but it's not the main priority for me tbh.

Denmark does have good subsidised childcare and an expectation that fathers are equally responsible for child rearing. There is also an expectation that both parents work and sah isn't really a thing there, largely because they have good childcare options. I don't know how they've managed to pay for it all but Britain isn't Denmark. We still have huge waits in A&E, waiting lists for operations, failing transport systems, housing shortages etc. I just don't think paying women to be home for a year and putting no limits on how often a woman can do that, isn't a spending priority.

Can you provide a link to someone complaining about parenting being talked about? Thanks.

I'd like to see that, too.

@betterangels @BiscuityBoyle you’re both welcome to RTFT, waste your own time rather than mine

I think there are some posters that think only a certain type of mother matters. I've seen plenty of threads where parents of older disabled children are told that their and their family's needs, don't matter.

Translation: "I can't provide examples because they don't exist."

"I just can't be arsed" = "I just won't admit I'm talking through my arse"

@ttcat37

^ obviously, but as it is predominantly a parenting forum, child free by choice (CFBC?) people who come on to complain that people talk about parenting, and make digs about parents (when they’ve never experienced being a parent, by choice), have got a fucking nerve.^

I have literally never once seen anyone “complain that people talk about parenting” or “make digs about parents”.

It’s perfectly possible to argue that policy doesn’t always have to favour parents over non parents without being anti parent. I am a parent and I am perfectly capable of seeing the perspective of a child free person on these issues. Parents aren’t a single homogeneous group who only need to talk and think about their children.

Mumsnset is not and never has been exclusively about parenting or for parents. Frankly the joy of it is that you can talk about more or less anything from philosophy to space exploration to the cost of insurance with a diverse group of people without having to funnel everything back to talking about kids.

You might want to look around and notice some of the other stuff on here.

Well the only comment on this thread I could find was this:

I just dont like children or mothers that are none stop talk about their kids.

This poster hadn’t started this thread to make these comments but has said that she finds it annoying.

If it's the thread I'm thinking of, I'm not sure why you got that vibe from it. A constant theme was the difficulty in getting the other types of leave you mention (which applies whether childfree or not). No one wanted ML taken away or reduced; the suggestion was that other types of leave should be more easily available.

The original point was that it is hard to work for 30, 40, 50 years with no break - when I say 'break' I mean 'period of doing something different' not 'holiday'. Unless you are childfree or a parent who, for whatever reason, was not able to take proper maternity leave, you can't really claim to understand what that feels like.