to think Rachel 'Raygun' gun has broken the phrase 'Oh for the confidence of a mediocre man'?

[Raygunstun]

( Ok, yes I know I am late to the party on this one).

I'm talking about the Australian women's entry into the breakdancing at the Olympics.

She went out there with absolute confidence, and complete lack of self awareness, and did really terrible breakdancing. It wasn't even really breakdancing. It was like some sort of interpretative dance. Her moves were clunky and slow. they did not flow, the connections between moves were awkward. She was like a competitor in a very, very local competition. And she appeared to have no awareness of this. I know there is a lot of creativity and expression in breaking, but it surely has to be combined with technical skill.

She also appears to have no awareness that the Olympics is about showcasing outstanding physical prowess and technical expertise. Both of which she clearly lacked.

In a way, I admire her confidence, but I don't admire her lack of awareness. I also do not believe she was the best female breaker in Australia.

Part of me feels a bit sorry for her as the break dancing world is clearly her world, but I can't help feeling she got so lost in the theory of the ' expressive' side of breaking she kinda lost sight of the technical skill side. A bit like Rachel Dolezol got so lost in the theory of race being a social construct that she lost sight of the fact you actually need to be black to be black.

Yes. Eddie the Eagle was definitely the best British ski jumper that year.
Eric was very probably the best Equatorial Guinean swimmer. He'd never swum in an Olympic pool because there wasn't one in the country.
Nobody was being unfairly denied a place.

This is daft. Breaking competitions are a thing that existed well before the Olympics so it’s well known what standard the top performers are at. Even the early days of breaking street battles, everyone would have been able to see she was well below the top standard back then.

In an age of global digital communicatio. and media, everyone who knows anything at all about break dancing knows what a good standard looks like and that she was not it.

I'd forgotten about the yawning thing. I'm no expert but have watched a fair bit of breakdancing & have never seen that. More often, if the opponent does something particularly impressive it gets acknowledged positively.

She behaved like it was a fucking panto.

Absolutely. I watched some of the men’s competitions and when one of the guys did a particularly impressive move his opponent really cheered him on with genuine excitement, joy and appreciation.

Where did you all watch the rest of the competition? I only found very short clips on the BBC.

you tube for men and women’s competition. Hard to find whole competition for ray gun, but a Facebook reel finally put on whole performances.

Thank you! I'm more interested in seeing the actual genuine break dancers.

Oh, I didn't know the foxtrot was African-American, thank you. I was going to put waltz actually, not sure why I changed - but for the purposes of my argument let's pretend I stuck with that!

Although... if the foxtrot too is from African-American culture, do people consider it racist and disrespectful when a celebrity bungles it on Strictly? And who gets to say how bad it must be to be disrespectful - somebody might be trying really hard but muck it up, is that disrespectful? Can we only let excellent, proven dancers even attempt 'black' dances so we can be sure they will dance it well? Do we need to quiz them to make sure they understand and appreciate the culture from whence it came? Shouldn't then that apply to all dance forms - should little girls learn about the rise of the Sun King against a backdrop of starving peasants, or about the horrors of Russian Tsarist society and the subsequent revolution before they're allowed to attempt ballet? Both cultures, and others equally miserable, are central to the development of the artform.

And what about if this Raygun was a black Aboriginal Australian... would it have been any less racist or disrespectful?

I have no idea if this woman was trying her hardest and genuinely thought that her interpretation was valid; as I understand it, innovation and creativity is important in breaking so she may have really believed that she was authentically paying tribute. If she really was taking the piss then absolutely that's disrespectful and should be condemned - same if she'd disrespected javelin, or football, or the high jump etc. I don't personally see how the African-American origin of her event makes any difference, same as I don't see it's any more offensive for Ann Widdecome fluff a foxtrot than a waltz.

Now if she deliberately and maliciously took the role from someone else, or if there was discrimination against other applicants for any reason, then of course it should be investigated. But I think that's a separate issue - if she'd stolen the role but been amazing, she should still be investigated.

Well my reading is the fact she is white and middle class has been thrown in and is a criticism. If the issue is she isn't good then why mention colour, why mention men developing this dance in the US? It is either something people are saying is relevant or it isn't relevant at all. I don't think her class, education, colour or sex are relevant at all so I don't know why that is being brought up. It just muddies the discussion, do people think she was being creative or do people think she was just useless. I can't see why anything else comes into it.

If you don't think it is being brought up why do you think the origins of the foxtrot are being discussed?

Well the committee selected her, don't know why a mainly british site should be judging how Australia has chosen to run their Olympic entrants.

I don't approve but psyching out your partner is standard. The aussie b-boy J-attack (Jeff Dunne) who's only 16, was teased by Dany Dann about the size of his cock. "He pulled a move where he mimicked pulling Dunne's pants down then walked away pointing at Dunne's groin and laughing. He then held up his finger and thumb, insinuating that he was lacking below the belt."

Who was in this committee?

No idea but presumably there is some committee for Olympic entries in Australia.

That is a horrible thing to do to a 16 year old. Not the sort of behaviour we'd accept from kids so no idea why a grown man would do that.

@BehindTheSequinsandStilettos I don't think that's the norm, though. Certainly not in any I've seen. What a dick of a man

Do people consider it racist and disrespectful when a celebrity bungles it on Strictly? And who gets to say how bad it must be to be disrespectful - somebody might be trying really hard but muck it up, is that disrespectful?
Ooh, good one. I didn't know foxtrot's origins but no, Jacqui Smith/Susannah Constantine weren't torn down as racists for doing average slow foxes.
Many know the links between Charleston and Josephine Baker and I do recall Natalie being compared to JB favourably. White contestants didn't have that comparison when flappers. The Charleston is a hard one to mess up though.
Street-commercial is a better comparison for levels of cringe.
I think Jamie Laing got a pass for doing street for his sheer enthusiasm/attack.
It was decidedly less cringe than Joe trying to 'jump'.
Chris Ramsay/Mel Giedroyc were also "knowing" about doing PJ+Duncan/Vanilla ice = middling white street dancing with affection.
So yes, street commercial - there is a sense that the white contestants are a bit pants. They aren't deliberately mocking it/making a parody. They know it's cringe but get stuck in self-deprecatingly.
Raygun has been lauded by some by "having a crack" - this would be fine if she was competing as amateur rather than as Australia's best.
I can't find the source - it's been taken down I assume for inaccuracy - but the article I referred to mentioning five known judges (turns out most weren't in the judging panel) also mentioned having 100 competitors. If they only had 15/37 (?) that's half the turnout you might have hoped for. Restricting it to Sydney clique/inner sanctum, without getting word out there/levelling up should be called out, if that's what happened.
Can we only let excellent, proven dancers even attempt 'black' dances so we can be sure they will dance it well?
Jowita got applauded for embracing afrobeats/was validated by Motsi.
Bill Bailey's hip hop style/ode to Janet was beloved because he took it seriously and was pretty fly for a white guy
We already know the middle aged women on attempting Latin badly always get likened to drunk aunties at weddings and the men who can't move their hips or attempt it poorly are deemed to be Dad dancers.
The public do usually get behind an underdog, whether it's on telly or at the Olympics...but Raygun was, well I don't know what she was doing. If you go onto Facebook, you can see Logistx thinking wtf.
Video | Facebook
One man's chutzpah is another's delulu.

Video | Facebook

Video | Facebook

Yes - it was a comment from an individual on the H's IG account.

People have expressed the reasons why quite clearly and linked to articles that explain it well. If you disagree, then disagree, that’s fine. But please don’t pretend this hasn’t all been explained on the thread.

Even in the qualifier clip, where she was better than at the Olympics, she's got no rhythm or coordination. It's like a drunk aunt at a party decided to spin around on the carpet for a lark.

Please don't pretend she hasn't been criticised for being white.

I thought it was fantastic, the highlight of the games for me. The kangaroo in particular was one of the greatest Olympic moments 😂. How often do sports make people laugh?

Surely I can't be the only person old enough to remember Eddie the Eagle?

The thing I can't stand is when they cry, I'm not sure if its worse if they cry when they win or when they lose. I'd definitely rather have a laugh.

There's a lot on YouTube.

Apparently she was chosen during short dance offs. She's on YouTube during a dance off and the routine is better than what she took to the Olympics. One of the other girls was still better though. Like Trump, you think that these things must be social experiments, but they turn out to be real.