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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

to think Rachel 'Raygun' gun has broken the phrase 'Oh for the confidence of a mediocre man'?

258 replies

Raygunstun · 14/08/2024 13:25

( Ok, yes I know I am late to the party on this one).

I'm talking about the Australian women's entry into the breakdancing at the Olympics.

She went out there with absolute confidence, and complete lack of self awareness, and did really terrible breakdancing. It wasn't even really breakdancing. It was like some sort of interpretative dance. Her moves were clunky and slow. they did not flow, the connections between moves were awkward. She was like a competitor in a very, very local competition. And she appeared to have no awareness of this. I know there is a lot of creativity and expression in breaking, but it surely has to be combined with technical skill.

She also appears to have no awareness that the Olympics is about showcasing outstanding physical prowess and technical expertise. Both of which she clearly lacked.

In a way, I admire her confidence, but I don't admire her lack of awareness. I also do not believe she was the best female breaker in Australia.

Part of me feels a bit sorry for her as the break dancing world is clearly her world, but I can't help feeling she got so lost in the theory of the ' expressive' side of breaking she kinda lost sight of the technical skill side. A bit like Rachel Dolezol got so lost in the theory of race being a social construct that she lost sight of the fact you actually need to be black to be black.

OP posts:
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Porridgeislife · 14/08/2024 16:37

It’s worth pointing out she won an Oceania qualifier. A lot of sports offer continental spots for countries who are unlikely to qualify through a world championships or similar event. In Oceania these include table tennis, rhythmic gymnastics, fencing and football.

She’s apparently the best Australia AND New Zealand has to offer! Even more embarrassing.

seedsandseeds · 14/08/2024 16:38

By the same argument black people can’t participate in half of ballroom dancing dances. Or in tennis. Or even football. Which were developed by white upper class people. Are you for real? That’s such a racist argument

Because white people are so oppressed(!) 🙄

Raygunstun · 14/08/2024 16:39

biscuitandcake · 14/08/2024 16:33

I don't think skin colour or class should be a limit. But there is an issue about what makes something/someone "good". The background of how breakdance developed is relevant - not that white people can't do it, but "getting a degree" in it is a different way to how the sport developed. I guess it gets into an argument about who "owns" the dance/sport.

I don't know, I am not sure I see it about as who 'owns it'. But there is something discomforting about a white, middle class person taking something that developed from another ethnic group's culture, and then seeking to redefine what 'good' looks like in that activity, apparently to enable her own participation in it when she has low talent and skill in this area.

OP posts:
Porridgeislife · 14/08/2024 16:39

Raygunstun · 14/08/2024 16:10

Nice that the breakdancing community are supportive. I read this, “Breaking is all about originality and bringing something new to the table and representing your country or region,” head judge Martin Gilian — known as MGbility — said at a press conference. “This is exactly what Raygun was doing. She got inspired by her surroundings, which in this case, for example, was a kangaroo.”**

But you can be original and still be good. When I was just watching clips, I liked the kangaroo thing and all that - I thought it was funny and quirky. I assumed she was a good dancer, adding in quirky moves to a skilled performance. But when I saw the whole of her performance I realised she is just a very mediocre amateur dancer. You can have original moves and still perform them with skill and flow and grace, but she did not do that. She was clunky and clumsy and slow and awkward. Most of her moves lacked technical expertise or skill or challenge. Being original does not preclude excellent execution, technical expertise or technically challenging moves. And that is where Raygun's defence of ' originality' , when performing at an elite level, falls down.

It rather looks like she has created this defence of ' originality' to enable her to justify her participation in something that she lacks real talent or skill for.

He’s hardly going to sh*t in his own sandwich. He’s only going to say good things about breaking because they need good publicity to get the sport taken seriously, and to keep himself in a job.

Raygunstun · 14/08/2024 16:41

Porridgeislife · 14/08/2024 16:39

He’s hardly going to sh*t in his own sandwich. He’s only going to say good things about breaking because they need good publicity to get the sport taken seriously, and to keep himself in a job.

I know. I was arguing against his sentiment.

OP posts:
ijustneedtokeepbreathing · 14/08/2024 16:49

Whether it's trolling or not, she took a place away from a woman or girl who deserved it much more than she did.

EsioTrotlove · 14/08/2024 16:49

Only read OP posts, so apologies if this has already been said; but Rachel Gunn is an academic specialising in social studies, who has lectured on gender politics in breakdancing. I think she is quite a capable dancer, but was making some sort of point in her performance for the purposes of her studies. A bit of a dick move (pun intended) if you think about all the young girls and women who would have loved to have taken her place.

Heber · 14/08/2024 16:58

EsioTrotlove · 14/08/2024 16:49

Only read OP posts, so apologies if this has already been said; but Rachel Gunn is an academic specialising in social studies, who has lectured on gender politics in breakdancing. I think she is quite a capable dancer, but was making some sort of point in her performance for the purposes of her studies. A bit of a dick move (pun intended) if you think about all the young girls and women who would have loved to have taken her place.

If that's the case, then it was hideously self serving and did precisely nothing for the girls and women who are now seeing the thing they're genuinely passionate about ridiculed.

I rather suspect she'll be back with a firmly defensive, carefully scrutinized, media savvy response.

Raygunstun · 14/08/2024 17:04

EsioTrotlove · 14/08/2024 16:49

Only read OP posts, so apologies if this has already been said; but Rachel Gunn is an academic specialising in social studies, who has lectured on gender politics in breakdancing. I think she is quite a capable dancer, but was making some sort of point in her performance for the purposes of her studies. A bit of a dick move (pun intended) if you think about all the young girls and women who would have loved to have taken her place.

There are plenty of online clips of previous performances she has given and they are a similar level to her Olympic performance.

OP posts:
BehindTheSequinsandStilettos · 14/08/2024 17:33

WDSF Oceania Breaking Championships in 2023. Judges included:

  1. Storm (Germany) - A legendary figure in the breaking community.
  2. RoxRite (USA) - Known for his technical skills and numerous championship titles.
  3. Katsu One (Japan) - A respected judge with extensive experience in international competitions.
  4. Nika Kljun (Slovenia) - A versatile dancer and choreographer with a strong background in various dance styles.
  5. B-Boy Moy (USA) - A prominent figure in the breaking scene with a wealth of competitive experience.
TIL Molly didn't win despite being better because she repeated moves from previous rounds which counts against you apparently.

Olympic breaking is scored on five criteria; technique, originality, execution, vocabulary and musicality.

wilteddandelion · 14/08/2024 17:36

not sure what to cption these but mumsnet says need to say something

speechless though really. it's corruption at its finest

link to where i first saw them Rena Hampden - I’m very tired. Edit: Added some SS about her... | Facebook

to think Rachel 'Raygun' gun has broken the phrase 'Oh for the confidence of a mediocre man'?
to think Rachel 'Raygun' gun has broken the phrase 'Oh for the confidence of a mediocre man'?
to think Rachel 'Raygun' gun has broken the phrase 'Oh for the confidence of a mediocre man'?
to think Rachel 'Raygun' gun has broken the phrase 'Oh for the confidence of a mediocre man'?
TeamPolin · 14/08/2024 17:46

I think what's sad is that the woman who did win gold has had her achievement completely eclipsed by this deluded woman's antics.

SnoopySnoopDoggIsTheBest · 14/08/2024 17:55

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We would have given you 10 out of 10 Rachael ❤️ #olympics #raygun #spi... | raygun breakdance | TikTok

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TeamPolin · 14/08/2024 17:58

In other news...

to think Rachel 'Raygun' gun has broken the phrase 'Oh for the confidence of a mediocre man'?
Tulipsareredvioletsarebue · 14/08/2024 18:06

Berlinlover · 14/08/2024 13:27

I just can’t understand how she qualified for the Olympics.

Her husband was on the jury picking the contestants..

Skigal86 · 14/08/2024 18:07

TheCookieCrumblesThisWay · 14/08/2024 14:17

The Jamaican bobsleigh team didnt exclude other genuinely skilled Jamaican bobsleighers from the Olympics. Her actions were to the detriment of other potential Australian breakdancers who could have attended instead. I really hope she doesn’t benefit from her notoriety. I also cannot believe she actually teaches this subject at university when she clearly doesn’t have the skills or rhythm.

It also didn’t play out quite the same as in the movie. They finished 31st of 40 in the 2 man bobsleigh in Calgary so not last and not ridiculed by other teams in the same way as the movie shows. Eddie the Eagle was also British record holder in ski jumping in 1988, so he genuinely was the best we had!

ilovesushi · 14/08/2024 18:10

SnoopySnoopDoggIsTheBest · 14/08/2024 17:45

Have not had time to read all the comments but this popped up on my feed today from a friend who lives in Austrailia ... makes for an interesting read ...

How Rachael 'Raygun' Gunn Made Olympic Breakdancing A Joke (newsone.com)

Thanks for the link. Great article. The thing that sticks in my gullet the most (after having a good laugh) is her claim that she brings originality. It is grandiose, untrue and disrespectful. The originality and creativity comes from those that started the movement/ culture and from the highly skilled dancers that continue it and develop it further. The subtext I get from her is - you are mere technicians mindlessly and mechanically reproducing moves, while I don't need technique because I have my highfalutin' intellectual originality and creativity. I work in academia but come from a professional background and I have come across this attitude from some colleagues towards my skills and experience (not breaking! 😂)

Tulipsareredvioletsarebue · 14/08/2024 18:10

MyOtherHusbandIsAWash · 14/08/2024 15:41

I actually know someone (an Aussie) who’s a friend of a friend. What happened following the Olympics and memes etc has utterly broken her. I agree the performance was really ropey, but it wasn’t trolling, she was just trying to do something different to stand out and it massively backfired. I feel nothing but pity for her.

I know I am a crap runner, I would not get my husband to send me off for a nice holiday in Paris to represent my country to 'have a go' and do something cultural, like walk backwards in the 100m race for the lolz.
It seems the whole thing was quite corrupt and she should not have gone to begin with. The internet hate was unnecessary, but also I an not chocked that people found it outrageous she went. Reminded me of that SOmali runner who was Somali's presiden's niece who went to compete in 100m and did the distance in over 20 seconds and ended it with a bunny hops.

Tintinuviel · 14/08/2024 18:12

Yeah this entire thing is...bizarre. I've not read about it properly, but it feels like there's a lot of missing information. How did she qualify? Was she competing in earnest or as some sort of statement? Were her qualifying performances much better? Were better people kept out?

It's all just very...weird.

Deadbeatex · 14/08/2024 18:13

Full disclosure; I know nothing about breaking and I had never heard of your woman until I read this post.

I found an 18min video and watched her first battle against the American girl and half of the battle with the French girl, I switched off at 9mins as I'd seen enough and honestly felt a bit embarrassed for her. I certainly couldn't do some of the moves she did so clearly she has had some training/practice but compared to the other two ladies..... I've not seen any interviews before or after so I can't comment on that but from the little I saw she looked out of the league of her competitors by a long way

KnitFastDieWarm · 14/08/2024 18:13

She’s the samantha brick of breakdancing 😁

I can well believe that she’s genuinely this deluded about her abilities - as an editor i’ve met plenty of aspiring authors who genuinely believe they are geniuses but can barely string a sentence together.

As for originality - to paraphrase picasso, you have to learn the rules before you can break them. One you can draw/write/breakdance at a technically high level, THEN you can start deconstructing the medium. She’s not original, she’s just a bit shit 😀

Atethehalloweenchocs · 14/08/2024 18:41

wilteddandelion · 14/08/2024 17:36

not sure what to cption these but mumsnet says need to say something

speechless though really. it's corruption at its finest

link to where i first saw them Rena Hampden - I’m very tired. Edit: Added some SS about her... | Facebook

Edited

That is really interesting! Thanks for posting. The whole IOC/Sport regulation bodies thing sounds rotten to the core.

Raygunstun · 14/08/2024 18:49

KnitFastDieWarm · 14/08/2024 18:13

She’s the samantha brick of breakdancing 😁

I can well believe that she’s genuinely this deluded about her abilities - as an editor i’ve met plenty of aspiring authors who genuinely believe they are geniuses but can barely string a sentence together.

As for originality - to paraphrase picasso, you have to learn the rules before you can break them. One you can draw/write/breakdance at a technically high level, THEN you can start deconstructing the medium. She’s not original, she’s just a bit shit 😀

Absolutely. The Picasso quote is spot on.

OP posts:
Shakeoffyourchains · 14/08/2024 18:52

CuriousGeorge80 · 14/08/2024 13:44

She has won regional championships and won the qualifying event. Her outfit didn’t help her and her performance was poor, but the whole event was pretty shit and it shouldn’t have been anywhere close to the Olympics. If she was younger, good looking and skinny, or a man, nobody would have given a shit.

it shouldn’t have been anywhere close to the Olympics

This. Apparently it was included in an effort to appeal to the younger, more hip, generation. I can just imagine the IOC boardroom meetings about it.

to think Rachel 'Raygun' gun has broken the phrase 'Oh for the confidence of a mediocre man'?
to think Rachel 'Raygun' gun has broken the phrase 'Oh for the confidence of a mediocre man'?
to think Rachel 'Raygun' gun has broken the phrase 'Oh for the confidence of a mediocre man'?
to think Rachel 'Raygun' gun has broken the phrase 'Oh for the confidence of a mediocre man'?