Does husband need to take responsibility for this?

[Bucketbluebell]

I'll start this by saying my husband is a lovely person. He's loving, reliable, hardworking, present etc.

He acts like every day is a celebration which in theory is very nice but in practical terms I believe is quite damaging.

He has a responsible and well-paid job. He has enough money for his part of the mortgage and bills but for any big purchases he definitely believes in taking out loans rather than saving up.

He is extremely generous with the whole family and loves to buy us all presents. The kids love it but mostly I make sure to avoid admiring anything near him because it'll turn up a few days later. The kids are overwhelmed with stuff. My husband is never happier than when he's out at the shops buying stuff.

He loves to eat well as well and although he is making serious efforts with the children and trying to understand healthy eating (though not doing it), he is health-threateningly overweight and we've already had to make a concerted effort to stop our older child going in the same direction.

Last week he received a letter from HMRC which he knows is related to an unpaid tax bill from last year, which he did make initial enquiries about at the time and then forgot. It's a significant sum, not crippling but enough to make life rough for a little while. It's not the first time he's neglected to deal with something important.

The thing is, half of me thinks that, while our children and our general finances are okay, I need to leave him to it. He's an otherwise responsible adult and must make his own choices.

But the other half of me really craves an equal partnership with someone with the same values as me. I strive to live carefully, to make healthy choices, to be environmentally responsible, to live simply and mindfully.

But I'm also weak willed and afraid I do crumble more than I ought. I have way more stuff than I need and I'm overweight as well as my diet has changed so much.

And I have to admit I have changed since we married. When I was younger I loved buying clothes, going to nice restaurants and drinking without a thought for the consequences.

So maybe it's all my fault for having changed. But I'm so tired of being the grown up and of being the one who always, always says no while he splurges on treat after treat with apparently no thought for the consequences.

What do I do?

I get my help and advice from Mumsnet 😉

He’s addicted, same as an alcoholic or gambler. He needs help. Would he let you take control of the finances? I think you’re right in that you need to set the example. Has he understood how awful the kids’ rooms look with all the overflow of stuff? I mean, has he really SEEN how bad it is? I would do a hard re-set, chuck out excess/stuff that no longer fits/gets played with, like the Stacey Solomon programme. Sell, donate etc, you’re going to need the money.

You're both burying your head in the sand here. Tell him to open the letter now and face this shit head on or you'll lose respect for him. Stop with the don't want him to feel unhappy crap. Your needs are just as important.

This is a proper come to jesus conversation OP. You both need a good talking to.

He's a hoarder, shopping and dopamine addict - the pleasure is in buying more things, buying expensive things, owning and presenting new things to people, having more things around the house, being the person who goes round the supermarket putting the so-called luxury items in the trolley.

Just open the damn letter. See what he owes - that'll make it real, which is what he's avoiding by not opening it, and is quite possibly contributing to his buying as he's trying to block out the thoughts about it by going for the dopamine hit of buying more bloody Stuff.

He won't appreciate the reality check and will hate being told that he can't pursue his addiction to a few moments' buzz - but you've got to do it before he drags you into poverty, as there is no off switch and he will continue spending until you have less than nothing.

You’re using positives to describe his behaviour but I find it quite selfish! Im
really greedy (and overweight!) and me treating myself and my family to food is me being extra greedy! Same with buying presents, easy to do and everyone loves you.

Making a healthier tea, going for a walk, playing with an old board game - all sounds twee but that shows real care. Anyone can spend money and it sounds like you don’t have it to spend.

Still one good thing might come out of you both dancing around the issue. It'll fuck his credit score. No more loans

So he spends what you earn or is your wages separate?

You have described my step dad to a T
He died leaving £27k of debt on cards and in loans.
It’s those left behind that pick up the pieces 🥺

It’s sad and frustrating to read this. From your point of view you might see your life as being a positive, stable life but to me it comes across as really out of control with disaster about to descend. I feel for you having this to sort out. Maybe shock him by piling up things to sell (and mean it) and start refusing all new bought items.

The one person who you should be able to have a difficult conversation with is your husband. If you don’t then the resentment just builds up. There’s no such thing as a healthy marriage without any conflict. I don’t mean having screaming matches but you should both be secure enough to be able to say when you’re unhappy about something.
No judgement from me as I used to be exactly the same until I couldn’t just go along with everything anymore. I didn’t want to upset my husband but it was either start talking or lose the marriage. It’s worth spending some time working out what you want from a conversation. You do get better at it with practice and your DH will survive being a bit unhappy or uncomfortable. Believe me, you will both be happier in the long run.

This is addictive / compulsive behaviour. It sounds like you have a milder version yourself. Not wishing to jump
to conclusions but could it be something like ADHD? - the overeating, overspending are both dopamine chasing activities.

I don’t think you can ignore this, because addictive behaviour always does get worse.

I think it’s actually in your interests to get involved with the HMRC issue - ie make sure he calls them and sets up a payment plan asap - so you can get on with fixing the bigger issue.

Sit him down, lay out the issues and say you need to figure out a better way to live between you, or get some counselling to sort it out.

If you just can’t be assertive enough to do this right now, get some counselling yourself first to sort that out - do seem quite passive. In the meantime stay involved with his finances - they impact on you so you do not have the luxury of ignoring it. If you are both crap at paperwork look up things like shared calendars and get organised.

He maybe lovely but he needs to grow up. He's immature and irresponsible which is not a great trait in a grown man. It sounds like its time for an honest conversation, where you discuss what your family life should look like. what values you have, what matters to you both. Couples discuss how many children they are going to have but not how they plan to raise them. Some people use material things to compensate for something or as an avoidance mechanism - could this be the case here?

He knows he will get bailed out by his parents and so he takes no real responsibility for his actions. The constant buying is definitely masking a bigger problem and eventually he will be serously in debt and it will all come crashing down. I witnessed my exH doing similar and his mother just kept giving him money. In fact when he worked overseas I had hmrc at my door looking for him and his debt at that point was over 100k 🤯 I had no idea!! You need to get to the bottom of this before it's too late.

I was going to say similar to @theduchessofspork around the ADHD.

From what you describe OP, I recognise certain similarities to my own DH.

I think first you need to get clear in your own mind what you want your financial future to look like. When do you want to retire and how much money and pension would you need for that. Do you have savings for the DCs and is that something you would like to grow ?

It's hard to know from your posts if your DH is sacrificing tomorrow for today, and I suspect you aren't 100% sure either.

Once you know what that looks and feels like, then have the conversation with your DH and see if you can move gradually to a closer page, if not the same one.

Also you must take responsibility for yourself. If you want to lose weight then cut back ( I lost about a stone simply cutting out sugar and carbs) . You can still go out for meals etc. just avoid those things.

If your DH is like mine he can switch his enthusiasms and if he sees you becoming trim he may well decide to do it better and grander himself, likewise with the savings. Try to move the dopamine hit to something useful, although be careful what you wish for, DH on a no spending mission is almost worse than the alternative.

And stop blaming yourself. It's hard to live with someone like this.

I don't know if somebody has mentioned this already but could both of you do some kind of course or program for learning about home finances? Maybe gain an external perspective? It's a little like counseling minus the feelings part 😅

We have separate bank accounts

I suggest that somehow you find a way so that saving gives him the same gratification. You can get online ISAs, including for children, where you have a chart to show the value, contributions, interest etc. Perhaps start a one with the name of your children eg “Janet and John’s university fees”.

This sounds like my ex, I left him before he dragged me down with him.

He’s since re-married and divorced in a short period of time for what I can only gather are the same reasons.

It’s like watching a very slow car crash and I’m so glad I’m no longer in the car with him.

You are not responsible for changing him—you will fail at it, for one thing.

He overeats, overspends, has poor impulse control, gets his self worth from playing santa claus with other people’s money (loans), “forgets” tax bills, can’t live within his means. This is a seductive but dangerous combination.

He won’t go to a therapist because he can’t acknowledge that he has a problem not just because he “doesn’t like to talk about feelings.”

I would suggest thinking hard sbout the example he is setting the children. In effect he is an addict—addicted to food, spending, and praise for giving gifts. How will they learn to manage work and life if this is their example?

Maybe sit down with him and a financial planner and entirely take over the family finances? Give him and the children soending money and teach them to live within their means. No more taking out loans or defaulting on taxes. He will ruin you otherwise.

I don't want to push him and make him unhappy, even though I'm unhappy not knowing what the situation is

Why are you prioritising his feelings over yours? His desire for a carefree live for today lifestyle over your children's future? Just why? Don't you and your children have any value?

I was also thinking his behaviour suggests ADHD (in a ‘takes one to know one’ way).
Sounds like he needs help to tackle the tax bill - does he have an accountant/someone who can help?

Work through it and work out what is outgrown or what won't fit this autumn/winter and sell in bundles. Use that money to set aside for your emergencies or contingency money. Overfull drawers will mean the kids don't know what they have, will never wear it all and it's a waste as you know.

My mum is a nightmare for buying the kids clothes. I try and point out the eldest is in school full time so in theory only wears stuff two days a week. She only needs a capsule wardrobe not tons and tons of clothes. I buy anything missing second hand for the kids as a result.

This! His behaviour isn't 'generous', it's an addict getting a hit. OP you really need to start framing it differently both to yourself and ultimately to him too.

Were you there when he asked for a repayment plan before? Hmrc can be a nightmare to get through to but once you do are pretty good.
My previous job I had to call them frequently. Most are very helpful.
disclaimer: I work for them now but in a role he wouldn’t like to receive a letter from me. However, this sounds like a matter easily resolved once he gets his head out of the sand.

I would be especially upset about him being a bad influence when it comes to my children's health.