UK universities in trouble - why not add VAT to tuition?

[80smonster]

UK universities are in trouble, apparently many could close, why not charge VAT on tuition fees (for those that are financially viable)? Bridget Phillipson says they are autonomous institutions and won’t be given a public bail out - they should rely on their own resources:
https://www.theguardian.com/education/article/2024/aug/09/english-universities-face-autumn-tipping-point-as-financial-crisis-looms

YABU - don’t add the VAT
YANBU - add the VAT

'I hope you see the value of unis in far flung undesirable places staying open so the disadvantaged can access this academia'.

I see the value in ensuring that access to university is not prevented because of economic disadvantage and for entry to be based on the actual strength of applicants - cutting through factors relating to quality of secondary school education coaching and providing financial support where needed.

I don't think local universities can be justified on the basis on providing employment and being accessible. This sits outside of their purpose and there should be other mechanisms to address these issues.

It was a Labour government who brought in tuition fees in the first place

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cv22y7zl18po

This says otherwise.

I agree with both of your posts @Drogdab, especially the one abut housing costs totally messing things up for younger people in general, especially the student population. It's inevitable that the numbers will fall imo. If housing costs do fall significantly, that would help disadvantaged young people particularly,

True and free for the local students in many UK countries.

Like nursing ! Or social work ! 🙄

In establishments the less well off rely on to access all sorts of degrees in areas close to home. Moving away to expensive areas is becoming less andd less affordable for many. Not everybody lives close to a Russell group uni.

Like nursing ! Or social work ! 🙄

Or teaching, midwifery, physiotherapy, radiography, optometry, pharmacy, architecture......Just a selection of courses offered at the ex-poly I work at.

Incidentally, Polytechnics were granted university status in 1992 - 32 years ago!! Yet some people are still going on about it!

Is that all universities teach? Nothing else.

Anyway why should graduates not pay VAT when lorry drivers and plumbers have to?

Seems unfair to me.

Because they’re not running their own business.

Why can't the UK work on increasing the number of wealthy people within it - so they can support their own universities and international students are a lovely bonus? Why can't the populace accept they will have to pay for a solid university education and save from birth (like occurs in the US)?

International students are great - I was one - my parents paid through the nose for 5 of us. We contribute an inordinate amount to the UK economy (well into 7 figures in taxes). Yet, there is the undertone of immigrants are taking our jobs etx. Most economic immigrants come here and to the rest of the West to thrive by working and contributing. The work ethic is off the scale.

I think there needs to be a culture shift - to raise kids to think about wealth creation, addressing unmet needs, that you (anyone) can have an idea and nurture it to plug gaps needed by society and employ people who also want to do big things. Getting 50% of the populace to uni is a dud goal, if they don't expand their minds whilst there

Why not sod off!!!!

I am not disputing that the closure of universities that serve locals will disadvantage those for whom attending a local university is currently the only affordable option. I am saying that there should be a mechanism for ensuring their financial position doesn't prevent access to university.

The case I am making is for universities to focus on academia and to provide courses that are academic. Then, for there to be high quality learning and development programmes that prepare people for desirable and well paid roles. Roles that are not best suited to academic degrees as preparation.

Neither the university route or other routes should be inaccessible for any demographic. This requires effective selection and funding processes.

So you want to treat self employed contract nurses differently to self employed plumbers?

Please just recognize universities and graduates have unfair vat status which disadvantages non graduates.

I suspect teachers, nurses, pharmacists, social workers….. are expanding their minds a fair bit.

😂😂😂

Private schools are still unfairly represented

So are children from grammers and leafy comps, they just don't get included in figures for perceived unfairness of access. They come under the general umbrella of state education, fine, but don't pretend that it's a binary issue. Privilege also exists in the state sector, you just don't have to pay for it.

Yes, and regardless of what polytechnics and colleges of higher education were called prior to that time they were still providing degrees and other qualifications. They haven't suddenly opened. If they shut it will be a disaster for the economy.

I don't see what's funny.

Training for key occupations which isn't delivered by universities has VAT charged on it.

Universities providing degrees in subjects like Golf Course Management, War Studies etc don't charge VAT. Nurses and Doctors don't pay VAT on tuition whilst tradesmen have to.

Clearly graduates benefit from an unfair advantage. They are being subsidized by everyone else. Its time for students and graduates to pay VAT on tuition like everyone else has to.

This is part of the problem, in fact it's probably a major cause. University shouldn't be for vocational training, it's a place of learning and research.

The old system of training on the job was much better, when nursing degrees started my nurse friend was tearing her hair out as so many graduates dropped out.

Universities are struggling because they offer a crap over priced product, and kids don't want to be saddled with huge debt for a worthless piece of paper. Graduates are finding it more difficult to get jobs these days, why bother bailing out this bloated, failing system, it needs streamlining not propping up.

I think it’s clear selection and funding processes aren’t the only need to make uni accessible to all. It’s clear going to uni closer to home is soon going to be the only option for many and not just the disadvantaged. People on fairly middling incomes are having to top up ever increasing maintenance money needed. The rental market is out of control and there isn’t enough to go round. This is only going to get worse and just upping and upping loans isn’t the answer. Students going to uni closer to home is going to become ever more common and people do not all live near the select few unis deemed acceptable by MN.Less snobbery towards any uni that isn’t a MN desirable uni is going to become necessary.

I completely agree with you however there is a real backlash in this country against anyone improving themselves as seen by the support of the VAT on private schools and many, many threads on here saying that if you earn over 45K then you are wealthy and should pay more tax etc.
So as a country, we end up de-incentivising people from doing well and earning more because we tax them to hell. Labour will target middle earners even more in the upcoming years.
The language used against middle earners and middle classes can be pretty aggressive and anyone with aspirations for their family is frequently sneered at.
You can be poor, that's fine but God forbid you aspire to any social mobility and higher wages if you are UWC/LMC

“University shouldn't be for vocational training, it's a place of learning and research.“

Who says?

There are not always the on the job training places available. T Levels alone have struggled massively as there weren’t the hospital places available and the whole course relied on it. And actually given the ever increasing load nurses are taking off of doctors I want my nurses to have a uni degree!

Why is private school seen as improving yourself?🙄

Indeed - however, we need a healthy economy to pay them their worth! I work with many and they feel the same. An economy cannot exist and thrive on teachers, nurses and social workers.

In addition, I work with entrepreneurial nurses and pharmacists - so you would be surprised at what is possible even in those fields!