'Sneaking' two extra children into hotel room booked for two adults and two children

[AlbertCamel]

AIBU in thinking this may have implications regarding insurance etc?

Friend is off on holiday later today to a large hotel abroad with her DH and four DC aged between 4 and 16. Not a package, no meals included and flights were booked separately.

The room has a small bedroom, bathroom and living area with a sofa bed. It sleeps 4. They've booked it for two adults and two children. That's the maximum number of people allowed.

She wants to check in with DH, their two youngest boys and all their luggage, and have the two oldest boys wait outside until they're 'sneaked' in a little while later.

I think that whilst this is logistically possible, it will have implications but not sure what these implications might be. Friend thinks there's no problem with this and nobody will bat an eyelid.

AIBU in saying it's not a good idea?

YANBU
Over-occupancy invalidates insurance.
It is stealing which is against the law,
It’s dangerous
It’s uncomfortable for the two extra children emotionally and psychologically, to have to always be hidden, or dodging about trying to stay under staff radar …pretending they don’t exist. Not knowing who to trust. Unable to learn how to be a decent guest, behaving properly.

What if they all get sickness and diarrhoea, cramped into a small space using one toilet between 6.
What if one of the two older children slips by the pool and knocks himself unconscious and emergency services are called.
What if the fire alarm goes off in the night…Will the parents teach their children it’s ok to ignore it and stay put. What if it’s a real fire not just a drill.
What if everybody thought this was OK because everybody was doing it so even more joined in.
What if the two children are found by security staff, hiding in the bushes while waiting for parents to give them the all clear.

There was a thread on here about the rise in open stealing from supermarkets, with the supermarket staff unable to do anything. This is the same IMO. People who believe they are above the law and can take without paying so that others have to pay more as a consequence. Normalising thieving.

It’s a terrible state of affairs where we can’t trust our friends to do the right thing.

@LAMPS1

Over-occupancy invalidates insurance.
The family won't make a claim against the hotel

It is stealing which is against the law,
they are not permanently depriving the hotel they paid for the room regardless

It’s dangerous
that's simply not true

It’s uncomfortable for the two extra children emotionally and psychologically, to have to always be hidden, or dodging about trying to stay under staff radar …pretending they don’t exist. Not knowing who to trust. Unable to learn how to be a decent guest, behaving properly.
If that is your example of physiological and emotional damage for children you have had a sheltered life. Most children don't over think unlike your self

What if they all get sickness and diarrhoea, cramped into a small space using one toilet between 6.
My family of 6 + used to share one toilet at home 24/7

What if one of the two older children slips by the pool and knocks himself unconscious and emergency services are called.
Then they are treated

What if the fire alarm goes off in the night…Will the parents teach their children it’s ok to ignore it and stay put. What if it’s a real fire not just a drill.
no the parents won't risk there children being burnt alive , don't be so silly.

What if everybody thought this was OK because everybody was doing it so even more joined in.
Then more people join in.

What if the two children are found by security staff, hiding in the bushes while waiting for parents to give them the all clear.
nobody is hiding in bushes its not a spy movie love they are just waiting away from the reception desk during check in.

Hope that helped answer your questions.

@DragonFly98 so you think it is OK to sneak in extra guests into a hotel without paying for them?

I don't.

6 people in a 1 bedroom apartment/room sounds like punishment to me! I would rather not go than feel uncomfortable and cramped. I think your friend is being very unreasonable to do this. There is a reason why rooms have a certain capacity 🤨

@DragonFly98

The hotel may need to make an insurance claim and if they were found not to have been vigilant about over-occupancy their claim would be invalidated. You slightly missed the point there.

It is the hotel’s responsibility to ensure that over-occupancy doesn’t happen. There are regulations the hotel has to adhere to, including building and fire regulations which dictate occupancy spaces. Their rating is also affected if over occupancy criteria aren’t adhered to. They have procedures in place to keep check on that.

If that were not the case, why wouldn’t hotels sell the room for x price and simply allow a free for all, everybody welcome to cram in and sleep on their air beds. Bring the in-laws too why not. The hotel would soon become very shabby and need an expensive refurbishment. Guess that’s what might happen in this case with six people and six lots of luggage in two small rooms with bed spaces only enough for four.

Like any business a hotel has to keep check on costs…..electricity, hot water, toiletries, plumbing, blocked drains, insurance, wear and tear, laundry, staff costs in extra cleaning, staff costs in extra security and management to deal with this growing problem. It all adds up.

I’ll tell you what happens if others join in and do the same. -Prices go up for all of us, even for those who find it so easy to steal and cheat others. And for those who are so cavalier about the law, like you.

Sorry @DragonFly98, but no, you have haven't convinced me in any way that a family cheating the system like this is within their rights. And I still feel sad for the children in question whose parents think they aren’t worth paying for and aren’t worth role modelling good behaviour to.

nobody is hiding in bushes its not a spy movie love they are just waiting away from the reception desk during check in.
This made me laugh though, so thanks for that.

The chance of a fire is miniscule. The chance of getting kicked out is very high, and the cleaners will know.

@AlbertCamel hoping you come and give us an update on how this went as I, and am sure others, are invested now in to how this goes 😆

Not sure I understand the link you're making but I would have thought people supporting a tax on luxury education would agree with you - you need to have the children you can afford and if not cut your cloth accordingly.

I seriously cannot believe people so invested in a situation that has F all to do with them! Honestly..you all need to get out more🤦🏼‍♀️

@Whistledown2 You can’t understand why people are so invested ?

Because people who steal goods and services with such a cavalier attitude make it more expensive for us all in the end. The more people who steal goods and services when the fancy takes them, is more of a move away from a civilised society towards a more lawless society where people help themselves to what they want without paying for it and firmly believe that is their right because they are special. Everybody else has to pay the set price but they consider that they don’t have to. The law is for others but not for them. They don’t respect the law, they erode it.
The danger is that others might see or hear of them doing it and think well if they can steal and get away with it so easily why shouldn’t I, it’s not fair that I should pay more than they do so I’m going to steal as well and encourage my mates to do the same because we have rights too and we don’t care what the law says and we don’t care about the consequences. We don’t know what all the fuss is about when we steal from others, they should mind their own business, turn a blind eye.
The bullies freely take what they want at the expense of the service provider and other customers.

This family in question have entered into an agreement with the hotel for accommodation for four people with the intention from the outset not to comply to the terms of that agreement but instead, to lie and cheat in a underhand way thus stealing from the hotel. The family could have chosen a hotel where they didn’t have to lie and cheat but it comes quite easily to them to steal. It’s no big deal to set out to cheat the system. They appear quite proud of their scam, even telling a friend about it. When the approval isn’t freely given by the friend, the family make the friend feel so unsure of herself that she has to ask others what is right and wrong about this situation as she suddenly has doubts about her own moral compass.
It is NOT ok to steal unless we want to become a lawless society. I don’t want that, so I’m speaking up. The OP was right to express her concern to her friend. Good for her.

It’s exactly the same as going into a shop every day for two weeks and wanting six of the more expensive apples but only wanting to pay for four of them and stealing the two they don’t want to pay for. There are other, perfectly good apples they could buy that are less expensive where they could legitimately buy six for the price of four of the most expensive ones but they prefer to steal two expensive ones than buy six less expensive ones. They feel they are special and deserve the most expensive ones even though they don’t want to pay for them. Stealing is easy to them. Everybody else who wants the expensive apples pays up for them properly. By the end of the 14 days, the shop has lost payment for 28 of the most expensive apples so the shop either stops selling them or puts the price up for those who are willing to pay.

You say you think it’s wrong that people should worry about increased scamming (theft) advising them it’s nothing to do with them, they should mind their own business.
Very short-sighted you are @Whistledown2, in my opinion.

@LAMPS1 then take it one step further. Instead of debating how wrong it is on social media, why not seek the names of the potential perpetrators/hotel?

I am well aware of scammers/thieves, but rather spend my time reporting such incidences should (heaven forbid) the misfortune arise. Short sighted I am not believe me, but thank you for highlighting my shortcomings.

Because it interests me to read about it. It is clear that I am not on my own as this thread is 7 pages long (I have my settings at 100 posts per page BTW).

It's called human nature.

And I agree with @LAMPS1

@RampantIvy how sad this thread is THAT interesting when there are so many other far far interesting reads out there, and you quote your settings too, my goodness you really do need to get out more!

It's actually called nosy..

And I'm happy that you have found a comrade in @LAMPS1

I'm happy to continue with my "sad little life" @Whistledown2, along with the other several hundred posters who have posted on here.

The irony is that you are also posting on this thread. Why did you even click on it?

@RampantIvy Have a good day..

Your time is obviously very valuable to you.

Yet here you are posting (at least three times) on a thread that holds no interest to you, to condescendingly unform folk that they are boring.

Yeh you really live life on the edge hun🤣

It’s not something I would do and I can’t imagine it would be very comfortable- plus they would have have to bring extra towels and wash them themselves which would be a pain especially if they are in and out a pool as well. Daft to to think that staff aren’t going to notice especially if they plan on doing anything together as a family- sitting at the pool, leaving/entering from meals and activities even if outwith the hotel. But I bet people do it all the time and get away with it. I probably would have just let them get on with it instead of having a fall out over it!

Why do you care?

Simply it' wrong and leaving them in a very scary position should the slightest thing go wrong. Just not worh it.

Yet here you are.

@BiscuityBoyle @PreciousMahoney I think you'll find I'm purely responding to my 'name' being mentioned and nothing to do with the thread..

Good day to you both

Tinkly laugh

10 days effectively living on top of each other with kids on the floor sounds a bloody miserable holiday tbh
I think the friend is taking the piss and I expect they will be caught out somewhere

Oh the irony. If you have spent your time reading all 26 pages or even half, it does sound like you are little bit invested yourself and perhaps follow your own advice.

@cannellonies if you read what I wrote earlier you would see I am only responding to those who have mentioned me and not the thread topic. This is now bordering on harrassment..