Wedding Photographer Cancellation - unreasonable?

[Bunny44]

AIBU to think this is greedy and unreasonable of the photographer?

My sister was due to get married this summer however 7 months before the wedding her fiancé unexpectedly broke up with her, which she was devastated about. She was also left to deal with cancelling the wedding vendors. To alleviate the burden on my sister, me and my family have been helping her with it all. I wanted some advice and thoughts specifically on the photographer.

She booked them a year ago and put down a £500 deposit. When they were informed of the cancellation (straight away 7 months out) they weren’t very nice about it and basically said she’d lose the deposit (somewhat expected) but that their policy was to insist on the full payment of £1800 for any dates less than 9 months out as they said wouldn’t be able to re-book the date and they had no exceptions.

We exchanged some curt emails in which we underlined several CMA policies including that they must re-advertise the date and try and get a booking and if failing that they could re-coupe for possible losses where reasonable. They said they would do that and we didn’t hear from them.

My sister’s friends took her away for her would-be wedding date to take her mind off it. The photographer emails her on the would-be wedding day with the invoice saying they’d not been able to book and needed payment, which she was obviously extremely upset about. Personally I cannot believe the lack of tact! Considering the industry they work in surely they understand how upsetting this sort of situation can be. It makes me think they really really don’t care about the couples they are dealing with. I did call him and told him to stop messaging my sister and really he didn't seem like a nice man at all.

I worked out that he must make at least £200k+ out of this business a year based on rough dates he said he was booked up for the year. Surely they have some leniency than to insist someone forks up such a large amount for him to do nothing with so much notice, he’d already be getting £500 out of her. Seems incredibly greedy.

As a side note, I should mention I’m a small business owner myself and have a rental property for short term lets. I have built into my business model cancellations with reasonable notice because it’s just part of doing business. I’m a bit shocked about the T&Cs in the wedding industry. I think a lot of couples just agree because they’re naive and caught up in the moment and they get taken advantage of.

Any advice on fighting this also welcome, if you think we should.

If you cancelled within 6 weeks, then I could understand him wanting to keep the deposit, but 7 months is taking the piss.

Definitely don’t pay any more money and if it was me, I’d be requesting a return of the deposit too.

I’m so so sorry your sister is dealing with this. It’s really distressing for her but it WILL pass 💐

I have quite a bit of experience with this type of thing from “wedding world”.

For 12 years I was at the business end and went to court about 8 times to recoup losses in circumstances like this.
Weddings are so emotionally charged and while it’s all “fluffy bunnies” for the loved up couples, it’s a great business to be in
.….. until it’s not.
It’s great mixing with lovely couples and their friends and family but at the end of the day, for vendors, paying the mortgage and the bills is why they do the job.

Profits from each wedding are used in business projections so each cancellation is a blow in a different way to the couple but still tough (we had 6 one year - it hit hard) …. No excuse for his attitude and actions but perhaps an explanation.

We had a 9 month - pay 60% / 6 month pay 100% contract.
The first time we went to court, we were ill prepared and didn’t know what to expect.
The judge wiped his arse with our contract.
That said, he gave us lots of pointers to use as part of his judgment which helped us to tighten up the contract (it went from one side of A4 to 4 🥴) and we were also able to use the calculations he made as a formula moving forward.
[One important point was to make sure each person in the couple was named on the contract thus joint and severally liable- no help to you but maybe to others in business].
Each time in court after that we used the formula and won each time.
What we did learn is that we could only claim for loss of profit, not for supplies we hadn’t bought to do the job (I worked for the venue so it was quite complicated- staff didn’t have to be paid, catering didn’t have to be bought in but venue fee, commissions and bar profit etc weren’t made.

In the case of a photographer it could be seen both ways - he has lost all his profit (low outlay product), he’s also lost any profits he may have made on extras like prints, albums or upgrades such as video reels, drone shots etc; but he hasn’t had to pay out for fuel and he won’t have to spend time editing after the day (which a lot of photogs will say is the bigger part of the job)
With regard to “reselling the date” I always considered this a moot point because if the date hadn’t cancelled, the other potential couple would have just chosen another date so it was still a wedding lost.

I suppose in this instance this analogy would only work for couples who are booking their wedding around the photographer’s availability which does happen if the photographer is as good as he says he is 😉

You could either tell him to keep the deposit and make him an ex gratia offer of say 15% of the difference as your final offer.
If he’s as busy as he says he is I don’t think he will be bothered to push for anymore.
Or, you can dispute the full amount continue with the stress and let him do his worst but he won’t get what he’s asking for and it’ll cost him to do it (think it’s about £100?)
Don’t know if this is helped but on a positive note he won’t get the full amount whatever you decide to do
Good luck x

£1800 isn’t his wage, it isn’t his profit. And weddings are seasonal. You don’t get full bookings all year round

Would her wedding insurance pay it.?

They are an award winning photographer and he said they get booked up 18 months - 2 years in advance and on his website he only advertised 3 free dates - my sister's one and 2 more in August and September. They're a team of 2 - him and his assistant. Doubt he pays he assistant for the days which are cancelled...

No she didn't have wedding insurance, but wedding insurance doesn't cover situations like this either way. When I got married I looked into it and due to all the T&Cs there are very few situations it does cover. Hardly worth having tbh.

So booked upto 18 months in advance and yet couldn't fill a popular time of year with 7 months notice?!?!

Something doesn't add up...

If you have a genuine concern that he may have picked up additional work then you could really call his bluff, and if he does take legal proceedings then you can ask him to provide his phone data for the day, specifically showing his location (its a real thing - its something I legally obtain for work!)
It could of course only strengthen his case if it shows him at home etc if he decided to take the £500 as a nice “well i’m at least guaranteed £500 so i may as well chill out at home for a day etc”
You could also ask for anonymised diary for the week or 2 before to see if his workload was such that you could argue even IF he wasn’t actively photographing on that day, he would have had enough work to be doing editing work etc. Its not a slam dunk thing but it would show that that day was still able to be a “working” day.
Incidentally what day of the week/month was it? I think a saturday in July is very different to a wednesday in March etc in terms of demand for a wedding photographer so you could consider if that helps or hinders the case?

I would contact Citizen's Advice. They are very knowledgable when it comes to consumer law.
You could also try ignoring this man and hope he goes away. The only way he would recover the money is by taking your sister to court.
If your sister and her former fiancé signed the contract together then he wood have to go after both of them surely. It’s horrible that she’s having to carry the cost and worry on her own when it’s his fault.
Also, in court he would struggle to prove that his lost revenue equals £1,800 when he hasn’t had to travel to the venue or spend time sorting out the photos from the day, which I imagine is about 50 per cent of the job.

It was a Friday in August. So although a week day it's a popular time

Tough one.

Wedding photographers are usually booked up in advance, good ones are 18mths out as just like your sister, people organise this quite quickly. Not a lot of people need a last minute photographer and if they do, they generally don’t want to pay a high end one. So there is every chance they couldn’t fill the date.

As to what is a reasonable loss, then as someone mentioned I would offer a percentage above the deposit as goodwill. If they didn’t resell the day, they absolutely made a loss to profit. As to what they earn a year or what their overheads are, it is none of your business, just like your financial situation isn’t anyone else’s.

Bluntly, the photographer is running a business and has t&cs your sister agreed to. The relationship breakdown is sad but not the photographers problem, your sister is a business transaction not his family.

Yes but he's also no longer providing the service so can't say 100% is loss of profit. The issue is he's asking for the full amount for nothing in return.

I operate a business on a similar basis to a photographer. Usually, I would take a reasonable goodwill offer, but if I have to chase people to make a payment, which is more of my time, then I become less reluctant.

If the contact itself doesn't clearly stipulate a suitable timeframe for cancellation and what tis expected to be paid if cancelled outside elf this timeframe then they don't have a leg to stand on in court. Regardless of CMA policies they are aimed at what to do if things are cancelled last minute and what can be recovered. This is what his deposit is for so that if it is cancelled before full payment is made then he doesn't lose out.

Hi OP, I'm a (experienced) wedding photographer. I haven't read all of this but have seen bits. I'll give you my thoughts and advice from this kind of situation, but I am someone who has always accepted cancellations and does not request additional payment if I haven't done the work...

• The photographer is not making £200k+. Average working wedding photographers will do roughly 35 weddings a year.
• Awarding winning is meaningless. It has no relevance to how busy or booked up the photographer is. You could be 'award winning' after starting your business the month previous.
• The £500 deposit is reasonable, you should not expect to get this back.
• The 9 month full payment clause is unreasonable (in my view). The photographer has 9 months to find another booking, or quite simply, go organise to photo something else for money. I would be certain any judge would say 9 months out the photographer has not warranted full payment for the work involved and the advance notice of cancellation given. During covid there were many many court cases (not for me), in those cases the photographer had to prove the loss of earning. I also suspect they would have to prove that someone else had requested to book the exact date your sister booked, hence loss of booking from your sisters cancellation (this may be the case).
• Photographer expenses are extremely low on a per day basis, even with high travel and a hotel, they would unlikely spend over £200 of a £2k booking.
• The photographer is very unlikely to take your sister to court. They will be sending in hope of being paid in full. The docs they are sending her were the routine docs sent during covid.
• Your sister has agreed to their terms, so ultimately this is up to your sister. I suspect it will go away, I would be guessing based on how photographers generally approach this. Perhaps your sister booked someone prepared to take it all the way however (rarely happens). I strongly suspect any court case goes in your sisters favour

I'd pay nothing. They'll go away.

I'd be asking him to provide evidence that he did his utmost to re-sell the date. Unless he can prove that I'd be arguing from that point of view.

If he takes her to court he has to show the court he attempted to rebook this date. He should also have to show his costs in regard to this booking. He had no mileage, no pay to asst. photographer, no photo editing. He also has to show what his activity was that day. Did he rebook another type activity, etc.

Your sister was happy to sign the contract when it was advantageous to her but now wants to go back on her word. Not admirable.

Why would he have to do that unless it was in t’s and c’s

If you cancelled your hairdresser as short notice and there cancellation policy said you had to pay in full you wouldn’t start demanding proof they tried to get another booking

whilst I have every sympathy for OP’s sister the photographer took a booking in good faith and is now losing out financially massively because of his customer’s circumstances
this is his wages it’s alright having empathy and morals but that won’t pay his mortgage

Years ago I worked In hospitality weddings and there services were booked a year if not a years in advance
I’m surprised at all these people who recon he’d be able to get another booking

I hate a reverse thread but I’m sure if there was one saying a client cancelled and my terms say they should pay they’ve signed I now have no wages they week and can’t pay my mortgage there’d be screams of take them to court

The point missing in the above, is that the photographer is only out of pocket on the presumption they rejected alternative business on that given day. If they did not, regardless of losing that date, they have already gained £500 for just a small amount of admin work to process the booking. The hairdresser comparison is not valid, the two businesses are extremely different, and whilst we are generally booked out 12+ months in advance, full payment being required with 9 months notice for a cancellation, is not justified for doing no work, regardless of the argument of loss of income. Yes the photographer had this in their contract, yes the client signed it, no a judge would not agree that person warrants full payment without working. I have seen this cases at the back end, I have never seen a photographer say they won in court (that's not to say it hasn't happened, I just haven't seen it)

To the people saying 'well, if it's in the contract, then that's that' - actually you can't be held to unfair terms in a contract, regardless of whether you already signed the contract.

Let him take you to the small claims court, OP.

Also I agree with the poster who suggested contacting CAB. They will be able to advise.

He can't even legally keep the deposit unless he can prove he has work equivalent to that amount. If it went to court he'd have to prove he couldn't possibly re book the date.

So yes there might be some admin he has completed but certainly not £500 worth or £1800 for that matter.
He hasn't got a leg to stand on

"He can't even legally keep the deposit unless he can prove he has work equivalent to that amount. If it went to court he'd have to prove he couldn't possibly re book the date."

Not only that, I suspect he would have to prove that he had turned away a different booking for the same date. He has to prove a loss which if the OPs sister had never booked, there is no loss at all if no-one else wanted the date.

Just for the sake of argument though, if the photographer wants to demand the remainder of the balance for anything within the 9 months before the event, because it's such a long time period, he would need to introduce a sliding scale of charge for it to be even be considered fair. For example, why should someone who cancels 8 months in advance be charged the same as someone who cancelled 2 weeks in advance? It simply isn't fair and has been said many times, an unfair contract is unenforceable. I've seen sliding scales of charges in several holiday booking contracts.