Wedding Photographer Cancellation - unreasonable?

[Bunny44]

AIBU to think this is greedy and unreasonable of the photographer?

My sister was due to get married this summer however 7 months before the wedding her fiancé unexpectedly broke up with her, which she was devastated about. She was also left to deal with cancelling the wedding vendors. To alleviate the burden on my sister, me and my family have been helping her with it all. I wanted some advice and thoughts specifically on the photographer.

She booked them a year ago and put down a £500 deposit. When they were informed of the cancellation (straight away 7 months out) they weren’t very nice about it and basically said she’d lose the deposit (somewhat expected) but that their policy was to insist on the full payment of £1800 for any dates less than 9 months out as they said wouldn’t be able to re-book the date and they had no exceptions.

We exchanged some curt emails in which we underlined several CMA policies including that they must re-advertise the date and try and get a booking and if failing that they could re-coupe for possible losses where reasonable. They said they would do that and we didn’t hear from them.

My sister’s friends took her away for her would-be wedding date to take her mind off it. The photographer emails her on the would-be wedding day with the invoice saying they’d not been able to book and needed payment, which she was obviously extremely upset about. Personally I cannot believe the lack of tact! Considering the industry they work in surely they understand how upsetting this sort of situation can be. It makes me think they really really don’t care about the couples they are dealing with. I did call him and told him to stop messaging my sister and really he didn't seem like a nice man at all.

I worked out that he must make at least £200k+ out of this business a year based on rough dates he said he was booked up for the year. Surely they have some leniency than to insist someone forks up such a large amount for him to do nothing with so much notice, he’d already be getting £500 out of her. Seems incredibly greedy.

As a side note, I should mention I’m a small business owner myself and have a rental property for short term lets. I have built into my business model cancellations with reasonable notice because it’s just part of doing business. I’m a bit shocked about the T&Cs in the wedding industry. I think a lot of couples just agree because they’re naive and caught up in the moment and they get taken advantage of.

Any advice on fighting this also welcome, if you think we should.

I haven’t read every comment so apologies if this has already been said but I’d be asking for proof that he actually tried to get other business… if a reputable sought after photographer posted on their website or social media pages (if they have them) that a cancellation had come up, surely they would have had some interest! At the bare minimum you could have surely used his services for a family shoot or gifted someone else the deposit or something but telling you the day of that he was unable to fill the slot is utter bullshit! Did he even check if they had reconciled or whether it might have gone ahead? Did he actually try & replace the business or did he just sit on his arse knowing it was written into the contract & she would have to pay regardless so didn’t bother doing anything?!

I was all prepared to say yabu however thinking you were going to complain over despite. He chose the deposit amount, that is what a deposit is for, why else ask for one? Nobody would book if he expected payment in full up front but that is effectively what he is saying. Also, over 6 months notice is plenty, it's the nature of his business that sometimes people separate before the big day, and his costs should be correctly factored in.

On top of this, he was paid 500 to stay at home that day! That is much more than most people make.

I think he is being highly unreasonable. I would probably suggest you make others aware of this because I'd want to know.

Hi OP, I totally agree that the photographer is being unreasonable in demanding the full amount. Also, extremely tactless and insensitive in emailing your sister on the proposed wedding day. I'm not business minded in any way but I am assuming if the contract says 9 months and that was signed by your sister, then he is legally allowed to request the full amount. I agree that this seems a harsh judgement. Some would say this is the world of business. Would you consider writing to the company again and request some discretion in view of the circumstances?
I hope your sister is doing OK; you sound like an amazing sister

Working for a regulator in a specific industry it really opened my eyes to how many people just blindly sign contracts/terms of business without reading them. The time to question the terms of the contract is BEFORE signing, not afterwards. If your sister had read them she could have decided there and then they they were unreasonable and took her business elsewhere.

The courts may take a different view but from a regulatory perspective you get nowhere if you've agreed to and signed the terms and conditions because if a business has laid out the specifics and you agreed to them how is the business unreasonable?

On a personal level though I think he's a horrible bugger and I'd definitely leave a stinky review.

This is why I could never be a business person

Wouldn’t cover this…

So sorry this has happened to your sister, YANBU. Keeping the deposit is very fair and to be expected. Expecting the remainder is unreasonable.

Unfortunately, you’ve had some bad advice from people who seem to think wedding insurance covers everything and people who don’t understand the law. I hope the good advice has been helpful. Have you tried money saving expert? Martin Lewis gives clear and correct advice. Best of luck!

Ignore ignore ignore. He's been paid. £500 for a day's work he hasn't even done. £500 would be classed as 'being paid' by any judge using his common sense. Most of the cost of photography is for the editing afterwards. He doesn't have to do any of that. Send him one final email saying he has been paid for work not even undertaken at a rate of £40 an hour and he won't be receiving a penny more.

Even just ONE wedding a month is £1800. Hardly struggling!

It is an unfair contract. H9wever, if she signed and didn't read the small print she may be liable to pay.

I'm no legal expert but as a business owner, I would be very confident going up against him in a small claims court. He has received £500 for doing absolutely nothing. £500 to stay in bed and do absolutely no work, just think about that. The remainder of the money would be covering his post-processing time (which can be considerable), the materials (album, paper, ink etc) which he hasn't had to pay out for. The purpose of a deposit is to cover losses due to outlay for the job. If he hasn't set his deposit fee high enough to cover his time, that's on him and not your sister, OP. The cancellations that came about because of COVID highlighted some misunderstandings as to what a deposit actually is (and why many businesses had to return them). That's why as some pp have said, it's often better to call it a booking fee instead of a deposit to have any chance of the vendor hanging on to it. Personally, I'd advise that photographer that if he tries to go with claiming the full fee, you'll definitely fight it and seek to reclaim the £500 deposit as well as costs. If he's got an ounce of sense, he'll back off. If his services were as good as he probably thinks they are, he should have had no problem replacing that booking with 7 months notice. Depending on how his contract is written, an unfair term (which payment in full would be with that much notice) may not only invalidate that part of the contract, it may invalidate the whole contract.

Unless the T&C were checked by a lawyer then they are basically unenforceable. He hasn’t laid out expenses as he didn’t travel or stay overnight anywhere or incur costs as part of it.

I often see posts saying photographers has cancelled their event quite close to wedding date.

your sister needs to check if she has legal cover on her home or car insurance as you can ask them anything. Also wherever your sister works, see if they have an employee assistance scheme as there is often a limited amount of free legal advice. Many solicitors also offer free 30 mins so explain the problem quickly 😂 in 5 mins so they have 25 to advise you.

the photographer should have been chasing payment way before the wedding. I had to pay in full by the day.

let him take you to small claims court as he would have to prove he did everything as a couple of Facebook posts won’t be enough.

There's some good guidance here regarding unfair contract terms:
Unfair contract terms guidance (publishing.service.gov.uk)

There's even a section called "Excessive notice periods for consumer cancellation"

In a nutshell though:
A standard term is unfair 'if, contrary to the requirement of good faith, it causes a significant imbalance in the parties' rights and obligations arising under the contract, to the detriment of the consumer'– Regulation 5(1). Unfair terms are not enforceable against the consumer.

If the photographer insists on the full payment, seeking legal advice might be the next step. A solicitor could help determine whether the contract terms are enforceable under consumer protection laws and potentially mediate a more reasonable outcome.

Can your sister ask photographer to charge the ex-fiancee as he cancelled 7 months before rather than 9 months?

You don’t accept it because you don’t understand how this business works. Yes i know that you, and plenty of people book weddings less than 1 year ahead. Most of those want things on a smaller scale and cheaper. People booking bigger more expensive venues need to book earlier. You just don’t understand how the industry works because you aren’t in it. You’ve only experienced it as a client. I’m sure there’s plenty about your line of work that would surprise me or that i wouldn’t believe until i experienced it from the supplier side. That’s just us humans being human. I get it that you don’t believe it. But I’m in the same industry and i do understand it🤷🏻

He stated the terms he was willing to accept them as a client. They signed and agreed to accept it. Now that it’s gone wrong and she’s cancelled all of a sudden she doesn’t want to be held by her agreement. Nobody expected her to need to cancel. It’s a real shame. but she and her ex fiancé should do the moral thing and pay up

A PP has nailed it. You signed a contract but it could poss be argued that its unfair so lose the deposit and see if they take you to court for the rest. Or ask a solicitor to see if they could get you on a CCJ if you dont pay.

@brightyellowflower can you read? I outlined the additional costs involved in being a photographer. He may charge £1800 but the majority of that wont be going into his pocket! If its that easy, you try it.

I've challenged an unfair contract term in court and won. (Holiday let)
I personally think that his terms would be deemed unfair. He's got a £500 deposit and if he was going to insist on the full amount, he should have let the bride/groom know ahead that he hadn't got a replacement booking and given them the option of using his time for a family shoot or similar.
FWIW I organised my wedding in under 7 months and another friend with a similar time frame. If he's that much in demand, surprised he didn't get another booking. Cynically I think he didn't bother, thinking he could make some easy money!
Call his bluff!

I was a wedding photographer and it is standard to request full payment for a cancelled date. But, as a lot of photographers discovered during the covid lockdown, it’s not considered fair to do so. The photographer would need to provide costs for losing the business, such as marketing/wedding fayre/social media advertising as well as the approximate time in hours spent on gaining and booking your sister as a client. He may be able to prove the costs of £500 but I think if the photographer took your sister to court for the full amount he may lose the case. He may well not have been able to rebook the date and I can guarantee he doesn’t earn £200k 😄. From an £1800 wedding, 20% goes straight to HMRC and a % for national insurance. Some will be paid into a pension; sick pay/holiday pay fund; all the business equipment such as a car; cameras; computer; software etc, it’s actually not a high paying career. Good luck to your sister, hopefully things are looking up for her.

Yanbu.

7 months is more than enough time to plan and book a wedding. I did the whole thing in 6 weeks, my sister in 5 months.

He's a lying bully. Blast him on social media, show screenshots of texts and emails so people can see exactly what they're dealing with.

If the photographer was to go for claiming the whole £1800, they would throw his case out straight away as that does not represent his losses. He cannot claim for the things he hasn't had to pay for (such as the album, printing, travel, venue/hotel costs). If say the actual profit loss is £900, sister has already covered a significant portion of the actual "losses". The photographer trying to argue that it wasn't the full 9 months notice of cancellation and "only" 7 months instead will not be received sympathetically by the court. He'll have to justify why 9 months notice is adequate but 7 months isn't. These supposed contracts are often so loaded in favour of the supplier that they are often unfair (and therefore unenforceable). I'd call his bluff. Read that unfair contract terms guidance document I linked to earlier - there's loads of stuff in there to fight with. Clauses 5.1, 5.3, 5.4, 5.6 and 6.1.1 in particular.
Definitely call him out on social media, just make sure you stick to the facts (so he can't claim libel). Others need to know he's not as 'reputable' as he is currently considered.

£500 isn’t a bad afternoon’s work when he actually hasn’t had any costs incurred and not even gone to work 🤷‍♀️

Legally they need to mitigate their losses and readvertise which they did.

But to play devil's advocate here... if they hadn't been able to fill the date and were expecting the full amount then they should have let you know in advance that they hadn't re-booked the date (not 4pm on the day) so that you could have done a family photo shoot.

If it goes to court it's based on a balance of probabilities. I'd be looking at how hard they tried to rebook the date and also make it clear that had you known that despite regular (??) advertising the date hadn't been rebooked, you would have arranged a family photo shoot which they didn't go down you the opportunity to do so.

I'd go as far as suggesting the £500 is unreasonable. Especially if they didn't advertise the date on a weekly basis!

Ps - Facebook stalk them and check they weren't doing something else that day!

I run a small service based business and my understanding is that any cancellation fees must be fair and proportionate and that having a signed a contract doesn’t mean that the contract is legally enforceable unless the cancellation policy meets these criteria. I wouldn’t pay under these circumstances and if it got as far as court, I don’t believe a judge would rule in his favour. Don’t be intimidated by him or led to believe that the signed contract means she must pay.