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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

Wedding Photographer Cancellation - unreasonable?

206 replies

Bunny44 · 07/08/2024 21:46

AIBU to think this is greedy and unreasonable of the photographer?

My sister was due to get married this summer however 7 months before the wedding her fiancé unexpectedly broke up with her, which she was devastated about. She was also left to deal with cancelling the wedding vendors. To alleviate the burden on my sister, me and my family have been helping her with it all. I wanted some advice and thoughts specifically on the photographer.

She booked them a year ago and put down a £500 deposit. When they were informed of the cancellation (straight away 7 months out) they weren’t very nice about it and basically said she’d lose the deposit (somewhat expected) but that their policy was to insist on the full payment of £1800 for any dates less than 9 months out as they said wouldn’t be able to re-book the date and they had no exceptions.

We exchanged some curt emails in which we underlined several CMA policies including that they must re-advertise the date and try and get a booking and if failing that they could re-coupe for possible losses where reasonable. They said they would do that and we didn’t hear from them.

My sister’s friends took her away for her would-be wedding date to take her mind off it. The photographer emails her on the would-be wedding day with the invoice saying they’d not been able to book and needed payment, which she was obviously extremely upset about. Personally I cannot believe the lack of tact! Considering the industry they work in surely they understand how upsetting this sort of situation can be. It makes me think they really really don’t care about the couples they are dealing with. I did call him and told him to stop messaging my sister and really he didn't seem like a nice man at all.

I worked out that he must make at least £200k+ out of this business a year based on rough dates he said he was booked up for the year. Surely they have some leniency than to insist someone forks up such a large amount for him to do nothing with so much notice, he’d already be getting £500 out of her. Seems incredibly greedy.

As a side note, I should mention I’m a small business owner myself and have a rental property for short term lets. I have built into my business model cancellations with reasonable notice because it’s just part of doing business. I’m a bit shocked about the T&Cs in the wedding industry. I think a lot of couples just agree because they’re naive and caught up in the moment and they get taken advantage of.

Any advice on fighting this also welcome, if you think we should.

OP posts:
Newgirls · 08/08/2024 17:52

So the photographer had 6-7 months notice and didn’t get another booking for a july wedding? Can’t be that in demand then or perhaps prefered to keep your money and get the day off. They sound awful.

OhmygodDont · 08/08/2024 17:54

Newgirls · 08/08/2024 17:52

So the photographer had 6-7 months notice and didn’t get another booking for a july wedding? Can’t be that in demand then or perhaps prefered to keep your money and get the day off. They sound awful.

I mean at over 1.5k most people planning a wedding in under 7 months anit paying that for a photographer.

MrsElijahMikaelson1 · 08/08/2024 17:55

We arranged our wedding in 4 months flat-and our venue was a cancellation so I’m calling bullshit on his excuses. He wants a paid day off. He could have filled it with something I’m sure-he could have tried any of his other bookings who were waiting for engagement or family photos and brought them forward as he’s so booked up 🙄

TonyeKnausgaard · 08/08/2024 17:58

OhmygodDont · 08/08/2024 17:45

Not saying he deserves the full amount but it is loss of earnings. Minus actual costs to himself.

So his fuel, insurance, depreciation of cameras/equipment, prints and any dvds/cds shouldn’t be taken into account but his actual lost earnings his hourly pay should be.

Show quote history

He doesn't get an hourly rate. That's not how photography works. A huge amount of the work he would have done would have been in post. And he's had £500 for doing nothing already.

You can write whatever you like in a contract but it does need to be reasonable.

OhmygodDont · 08/08/2024 18:00

TonyeKnausgaard · 08/08/2024 17:58

He doesn't get an hourly rate. That's not how photography works. A huge amount of the work he would have done would have been in post. And he's had £500 for doing nothing already.

You can write whatever you like in a contract but it does need to be reasonable.

Show quote history

Technically he will have an hourly rate. His price divided by hours worked after his deductions for equipment and insurances and such. Every one does that’s how working too much overtime can take you below minimum wage and as a self employed person he certainly won’t want to be below it.

Waltdisnerd · 08/08/2024 18:05

We had this exact situation with a photographer when my sister had to move her wedding due to COVID lockdowns ! He couldn't do the new date and still wanted full payment.
He did not get a penny.

FranceIsWhereItsAt · 08/08/2024 18:05

It's quite possible that even if he did advertise the dates, he may have turned down the work, thinking that he could have a day off on your sister's dime OP.

Have you thought of trying Citizen's Advice to see if they think you have a good chance of proving that his terms are unreasonable?

Mamasperspective · 08/08/2024 18:15

He may have still rebooked the date and not said anything - I would make him still turn up and do some other photo shoot with you as you're still paying for his time

side note (another option): I would get someone else to message him (ensure you're not friends on social media in case he looks them up) and make enquiries about wedding photography. Tell him 3 weekends in a row that are potential dates but they're waiting for the venue to confirm (make sure your date is one of the dates) and ask his availability. If he says he's not available on that date, you know he actually HAS managed to rebook.

Original poster
Bunny44 · 08/08/2024 19:42

Mamasperspective · 08/08/2024 18:15

He may have still rebooked the date and not said anything - I would make him still turn up and do some other photo shoot with you as you're still paying for his time

side note (another option): I would get someone else to message him (ensure you're not friends on social media in case he looks them up) and make enquiries about wedding photography. Tell him 3 weekends in a row that are potential dates but they're waiting for the venue to confirm (make sure your date is one of the dates) and ask his availability. If he says he's not available on that date, you know he actually HAS managed to rebook.

Edited

So the date has already passed but they were advertising it on their Facebook page.

They only messaged her at 4pm on the wedding day to let her know about the lack of booking. If they'd said in advance we could have discussed doing a family photo shoot or something like that for the money. That's kind of why I think they're being particularly cheeky to want the money for nothing.

OP posts:
Original poster
Bunny44 · 08/08/2024 19:43

Waltdisnerd · 08/08/2024 18:05

We had this exact situation with a photographer when my sister had to move her wedding due to COVID lockdowns ! He couldn't do the new date and still wanted full payment.
He did not get a penny.

Did they pursue you?

OP posts:
Waltdisnerd · 08/08/2024 20:02

Bunny44 · 08/08/2024 19:43

Did they pursue you?

Show quote history

Only by many calls and emails. It was impossible to move the wedding to a date when every vendor was available during COVID and he didn't care one bit and was very nasty about it! We just made it very clear he'd never get a penny and he eventually gave up!

Newgirls · 08/08/2024 21:29

I reckon he kept the date on fb but didn’t accept any work - could have said it was too far or whatever. He’s had a day off and been happy about it

parkrun500club · 08/08/2024 21:40

I wonder what the photographer would have expected to do if they had to cancel the gig at short notice, eg because they were ill.

Would they pay your sister the full amount to eg cover the cost of her finding a different photographer? I bet they wouldn't.

It's amazing how so many businesses think consumers should compensate them if they cancel but don't see the need to reciprocate when they cancel.

parkrun500club · 08/08/2024 21:42

bridgetreilly · 08/08/2024 13:22

You need to get over the bit about the date. For him, that’s just the day when he can confirm he’s not going to get another booking,

If she’s signed the contract, she’s liable, and honestly, I don’t think it’s unreasonable. This is why you should have wedding insurance.

Wedding insurance doesn't cover a party changing their mind!

BlackPanther75 · 08/08/2024 21:43

parkrun500club · 08/08/2024 21:40

I wonder what the photographer would have expected to do if they had to cancel the gig at short notice, eg because they were ill.

Would they pay your sister the full amount to eg cover the cost of her finding a different photographer? I bet they wouldn't.

It's amazing how so many businesses think consumers should compensate them if they cancel but don't see the need to reciprocate when they cancel.

That will be in the contract too

Dingdongdownunder · 08/08/2024 21:43

Keeping the deposit is fair, charging the full amount is not. I would just not pay, let him chase you/your sister for it. He's probably just trying it on and won't push too hard

WigglyVonWaggly · 08/08/2024 21:47

He asked for a deposit and got one, which he got to keep when the booking was cancelled. If he wanted the full amount to be covered even if 7 months notice was given, he should’ve asked for a deposit of the full amount or stated that 100% of the costs were still payable if the booking was cancelled at any point at all.

As for charging the full amount - he should only reasonably expect to cover his loss of earnings. He didn’t have any of the costs of travel to the venue, processing and printing costs etc etc. He hasn’t even offered to deduct those or show any goodwill in the circumstances. He’s gained £500 for doing nothing.

I’d let him take me to court. I bet he won’t.

JudgeJ · 08/08/2024 22:34

Then I'd be considering their enforceability based on the consumer act 2015 and unfair contract act 1977.

Both of which were in force when the OP chose to accept the contract by signing it!

Original poster
Bunny44 · 08/08/2024 22:35

BlackPanther75 · 08/08/2024 21:43

That will be in the contract too

Show quote history

Actually it wasn't and none of the wedding vendor contracts accounted for compensation for them cancelling

OP posts:
dontstopmenowimhavingagoodtime · 08/08/2024 23:50

JudgeJ · 08/08/2024 22:34

Then I'd be considering their enforceability based on the consumer act 2015 and unfair contract act 1977.

Both of which were in force when the OP chose to accept the contract by signing it!

Your ATD is poor, don't argue in court.OP signed not contract.

parkrun500club · 09/08/2024 08:06

JudgeJ · 08/08/2024 22:34

Then I'd be considering their enforceability based on the consumer act 2015 and unfair contract act 1977.

Both of which were in force when the OP chose to accept the contract by signing it!

What's your point? The law protects consumers from unfair contract terms. The fact that you sign something doesn't mean you are bound by it if a court (or the CMA or trading standards) subsequently looks at those terms and consider that they don't comply with the law.

Lots of small businesses use unfair and unenforceable terms. I do an outdoor fitness class where the woman who runs it wanted me to sign a disclaimer. I know it's not worth the paper it's written on. Happens all the time. People don't want to pay for legal advice, but it can turn out to be a false economy.

parkrun500club · 09/08/2024 08:08

Bunny44 · 08/08/2024 22:35

Actually it wasn't and none of the wedding vendor contracts accounted for compensation for them cancelling

Show quote history

No business ever does. They always say "if you cancel your appointment within 24 hours of the time you have to pay 50% of the appointment fee" or similar. But when they phone me to cancel because they have covid or a family emergency, there's no talk of them paying me 50% of the appointment fee! Funny, that.

BlackPanther75 · 09/08/2024 09:30

parkrun500club · 09/08/2024 08:08

No business ever does. They always say "if you cancel your appointment within 24 hours of the time you have to pay 50% of the appointment fee" or similar. But when they phone me to cancel because they have covid or a family emergency, there's no talk of them paying me 50% of the appointment fee! Funny, that.

Show quote history

That’s just not true. I’m in a wedding band and our agency specifically states what happens if we cancel and our responsibilities. It’s absolutely standard with agencies and we include it in our contract when we pick up bookings through our own website too

CandyLeBonBon · 09/08/2024 14:06

Your ATD is poor, don't argue in court.OP signed not contract.

Could you write that in English please? I can't make sense of what you're saying?

Ariela · 09/08/2024 15:21

I would stalk. Check their FB/IG for weddings around that time, and look on the gallery on their website see if they have one in there for at least that month, and see if you can stalk that on social media to get a date.

Then get a friend to post on local FB pages asking for recommendations for wedding photographers and stress they're looking for a really good family group shot as this will be grandma Doris's last grandchild to wed, so could they post a photo too of a group shot taken in the last year. By all means say 'not very popular and highly recommended photographer x or y or z as can't do the date' to rule out everyone saying those top photographers, and hopefully leave the way forward for lots of recommendations of the one you had booked.

Then go through the recommendations for the photographer in question and check by scrutinising the suggester's FB page for the wedding see who is tagged and hopefully you'll find a wedding was on the date of the cancelled wedding and they DID get a booking.