To think the anti-immigrations have BEEN "heard"?

[dropoutin]

I posted something like this on one of the riot threads but it ws locked soon after.

Is anyone else getting really bored of people justifying racism, terror, violence and destruction by insisting how important it is that those who imagine asylum seekers are responsible for the country's problem are "heard".

Little reminder: It's exactly that particular obsession that led to the Brexit referendum in 2016, and the most radical - and destructive - political change of recent times.

There were several years in which the country barely discussed anything else. Farage and Johnson got to tell you in great detail how the reason you're poor is because of the black family down the road. And you got the choice of believing them, or not. You even got to make Johnson PM so he could "get Brexit done" and "level up" your community.

You've been taken for a ride. Asylum seekers rriving irregularly (via small boats etc) make up less than 5% of total immigration, which is coming down after peaking in 2022 (partly due to the Ukraine war, and other factors). Neither Tories nor Labour are going to radically reduce immigration because anyone having to ACTUALLY run the country can see that doing so will exacerbate the demographic time-bomb, reduce economic activity and decimate the NHS. You're poor because of 14 years of Conservative economic policy, not because of anyone's skin colour or passport.

Meanwhile: How many of us get to have a national referendum tailored around our favourite policy hobbyhorse? When is my referendum on industrial relations? On housing and land ownership? On the House of Lords? When do I get to be "heard"? Being heard doesn't mean everyone has to agree with you, or that you get to go out and beat up brown people because things aren't working out the way you imagined they would.

It's not that you haven't been heard. It's just that you were wrong.

And it also pays for people who come illegally which other countries dont

Well it's always helpful to compare this country to other countries as otherwise you have no benchmark to assess whether we are doing OK or doing badly. Assuming 100% perfectionnis going to be hard, instead what country would you like the UK to be more like?

It’s just based on facts. If you won’t even have a google and read basic facts, then yes I’m afraid you are wasting your time.

The NHS has an active international recruitment policy due to the nursing shortage.

The UK government has an active policy for granting visas to “low-skilled” care workers from abroad. Visa restrictions intentionally eased in 2022 due to the crisis-level shortage of care workers.

Majority of immigration in recent years is from the Ukraine and Hong Kong.

But I’m sure the top people in the NHS and government who have developed these policies would love to hear from ColbaltQueen on mumsnet what her solution is for the huge crisis in NHS and care worker recruitment. Forget about recruiting nurses from India and Nigeria. Forget about granting visas for low-paid care workers from the Philippines. Immigration is too high, so we need a different solution. Which is?

100 hundred percent bloody farage riots. You know that I belive this was orchestrated to take starmer down from farage etc. They lost in the election didn't get enough votes. If folks want less immigration go vote reform etc. Left wing parties won more seats so suck it up. This is the far right losing their power so trying to do a power grab. Same in America neo nazis March in nashville other day the old guard are not happy. White men are losing power.

I thought that was rather a good answer! It conveys the point being made very effectively.

The UK trains many doctors and health professionals who then go on to work in Australia. Moving for a better life is their entitlement.

Absolutely, it's mutual respect. As white immigrants, we had to move areas because we were being subjected to racially motivated and sexist abuse. I grew fearful of taking my children to the park without my husband, I and my daughters were called 'white trash, white sluts etc' for 'daring' to wear shorts on a hot day. My daughter was left out at playtime in a primary which was predominantly Somalian and Pakistani. So we had to move

Clacton is full of people who have usually been some of the poorest in East London. I know Newham council ship quite a few there. And yes more likely to be Reform voters as they were very much in the white minority back in London and went to Clacton to escape that

People are forgetting that these riots were organised, and part of a far right political agenda.

These people want to create division, and a feeling in the population that nobody is safe, that there is cause for fear and anxiety. They will lie, exaggerate and do whatever it takes, because their agenda is to destabilise democracy. Ultimately they would like to replace our leaders with a Putin "strong man" style leader. Why do you think leaders like Trump, who is involved in similar in the US, are so supportive of Putin? Not that he stuck by his rioters when he was unsuccessful in overturning the election, just as the right wing won't do so here.

This is really serious stuff, and frightening times. And the people saying we should be frightened of immigration are being influenced and often organised by people we should be really frightened of.

Totally agree, OP. The anti-immigration agenda has been central to political discourse in this country for almost 10 years now. It feels like the country bends over backwards to accommodate and placate their views but because we're not prepared, as a country, to act illegally and completely immorally they're not happy

That might be true. I think the left have always raised the bogey man of the "far right" for decades without there being much of an actual far right movement. But now I think things have changed due to world events causing mass movement of people together with covid..we always knew things would be rubbish after the pandemic.

On another thread a poster was saying her daughter who had graduated from nursing couldn't get a job in nursing along with her fellow graduates?

But what’s so great about this version

Do we have rioting and increasing instability instead?

You can fix it legally and be happy some countries do and they’d never end it, no party would left or right

Why would you want an unstable country where others put you on do not travel lists

Indeed. And I believe the murder of 3 gay men in a park was done by a Syrian asylum seeker

We don't need to be like any other country. We need to live the values we ask others to live by.

Just out of interest @dropoutin, do you have a hotel housing 250 plus single men in your community?

I absolutely don't agree this is the right way to go about it but in places like Tamworth people did complain but basically tough.

The loss of a large hotel means less visitors, less money in the local economy, less trade for the businesses that relied on this, local restaurants closing etc in addition to the costs of housing them.

I can glibly say they've been heard because it doesn't really affect me but I do have to question how I'd feel living next door to it.

On the other hand I think the people doing this are mostly just there for a fight but just dismissing it all as far right is a mistake and in part what is fuelling this.

Forget about granting visas for low-paid care workers from the Philippines. Immigration is too high, so we need a different solution. Which is?

@Forestgreen19 - sort out the care system, by making it the National Care System, pay care workers properly and create career progression for them, so they earn more for further qualifications and experience. Exploitation of poor people from overseas should not be the answer.

How much has H2S cost so far and what is the projected total cost? Whatever the projected cost is, it will turn out to be a massive underestimate? I am sure that money would have gone a long way in improving the care system, with knock on savings in the NHS and maybe enough left over to increase the funding for GPs too?

I think far more practical method to assess how well we are doing is to compare the UK to all other countries. Otherwise we can't judge unless we are aiming for utopia. Which would require a few lobotomies I suspect...

I have a theory that this brand of racism stems from insecurity. Insecurity of people who feel they don't fit into the world around them. People who perhaps have less money and poor employment opportunities along with older people who don't understand or like the way the world is now. People who feel out of place in their surroundings. As lots of posters on this thread have pointed out, people who feel aggrieved kick downwards at those below them, as has been seen repeating over and over in history. As @marmaladeandpeanutbutter points out rightly, this is being utilised by evil leaders to further their own progression and agendas.
We're constantly told that we're hard up and there isn't enough for everyone. This just reinforces the sense of festering resentment.

The only people who have tried to 'upturn' democracy and the rule of law recently are the right.

It wasn't Muslims or immigrants who illegally suspended parilment, brought in legislation that infringes on people's long established rights, or began questioned the established democratic process only when they didn't get there way.

In my town the various immigrant and religious communities are very well integrated. If that's not the case elsewhere then you need to examine the specifics for that area but it's certainly not correct to say it's a universal cultural problem.

I can totally see this!

Once upon a time, there was a country of horses. There was a war in neighhhhhbouring Unicorn island and the horses shouted 'Hay! - come over here, we can help'

The horses gave the Unicorns stables and hay.

The horses slowly noticed their own opportunities being severely depleted - Baby horses cannot get a school place nor afford to fly the stable and have to live at home until they are 40 years old. There are not enough stables to go round

The paddocks the horses grew up in, they begun to be made to feel uncomfortable and unsafe by the Unicorns and the Horses begun to move away from the cities in droves - many forced to gallop out by intimidation and crime.

The unicorns have very different outlook on how horses live, from work / sleep / even rubbish disposal - everything is different and the Unicorn is not interested in the Horse way of life and these constant differences, cause tension

One horse on his way home from work one night, was attacked by Unicorns and had his skull broken by Unicorn hooves

Horses who still live in some areas, are scared to step outside of their doors at night -as there are huge droves of Unicorns galloping round the area armed with knives, bats and even petrol bombs.

The police just run away and do not get involved

The horses expressed concern about all this but were attacked by all the other horses

This is what is happening

Absolutely agree with you
But I do think we should have some sort of system where we write off the student loans for high demand professions once they have worked for NHS/state school etc for 5 years/10 years to help attract students from across the economic spectrum who may be very capable but put off by the debt from studying, to encourage them to stay working in the uk for a bit longer

I think getting rid of the pensioners fuel allowance was a mistake or at least raising the threshold

And yet schools have places available in London there is a low birth rate now. Infrastructure not being put in place by the conservatives hasn't helped japan have a problem as thwy haven't taken immigrants and countries that do have better economies aka growth .