To marvel at privately educated Keir Starmer's hypocrisy?

[Bursarysadness]

Both Kier Starmer and his wife are privately educated. Kier's senior school converted into a private school in the second year of his attendance and he has received a generous full bursary up until his A levels. He has built his life and his success on this education, supported to the end by the bursary funded by the same schools and parents he is now trying to destroy. It pains me as my children receive 50% bursaries from a brilliant local school. We've worked incredibly hard to cover the remaining 50% but it has been worth it, seeing how my children blossomed. We had a very different experience in their primary state schools, including bullying and racism. We don't live in a great area. We have just been told that the school will probably reduce all their bursaries to be able to lower the fees for the non bursary parents who are now struggling because of the VAT introduction. I don't know what the future for my children is now and they have so many close friends where they are. They are both academically brilliant and work very hard - hence the bursaries were granted. I feel so depressed that, from what is becoming obvious, they won't be able to benefit from the generosity of bursaries the same way Kier Starmer did when he was a child ..

No, he’s a hypocrite because he is implementing a policy that is forcing some children to move mid year when he was allowed to continue at his school up to O Levels AND then sixth form. He didn’t even have to leave at the next transition point.

@Bursarysadness "They've also been open about the fact that this is step one and the abolishion of private education is their ultimate goal"

Have they? Where? Who?

I'm sorry but in one of the responses to @senmama007 saying her kids struggled in state system, you said you totally understand as yours did too? So do they or don't they? I'm a bit confused.... Or is it "whatever fits my argument" situation?

And do you not appreciate that some kids' Sen needs might be different and some schools might not be as collaborative or understanding as yours?

Do you suggest that kids don't learn about life in private schools? Not all schools are etons or harrows. How would your kids know how private education differs from theirs? Unless you are feeding these ideas of course?

I have experience of both sector - state primary and private secondary. Our state primary was in a posh area, similar to Starmer's. People and kids in my primary were more stuck up and entitled than kids in our private schools

This whole private school debate is a distraction from the real issue which is STATE SCHOOLS WILL NEVER BE ‘EQUAL.’

Case in point being that Starmer went to a GRAMMAR SCHOOL. Are grammar options available to the vast majority of children? No. Only if you live in certain parts of Bucks, Kent, Essex, Dorset, Wirral, London and Lincolnshire.

Any mention from Labour about the inequalities of opportunity created by the grammar system?

Even taking grammars out of the equation, it’s patently obvious that a school in an area where the vast majority of parents went to uni, understand the value of education and support the teachers is going to be a totally different experience to a school where parents have a negative attitude towards school or who aren’t bothered.

Arguing that all state schools can be equal is a pipe dream. Like arguing society can be equal. This has never happened. If schools are not selective by fees or by academics, they are selective by postcode.

Yes more money for schools will help, obviously, but you have to fix society first and it’s more ‘broken’ in some places than others. This whole private school VAT or no VAT is a calculated distraction and will do next to nothing in terms of improving the state sector. The money is supposedly going towards recruiting more teachers. But why not try to retain the teachers we actually have - the thousands leaving in droves due to stress. Now they are going to have to run breakfast clubs too.

Rather than training more teachers, why not pay the ones we have more? Why not support them to actually teach, rather than this expectation that they now have to be social workers, run breakfast clubs and deal with obnoxious moaning parents who take no responsibility for their own lives, let alone their kids, and just blame schools for everything.

So basically you have no real argument except, I can’t afford it, so why should your. Child have it’! Jealousy is a terrible trait!

Absolutely@Safi7 . This was my point. For our primary, we lived in a very nice area (renting for very little from a family member working abroad). However, after a few years they came back and we had to move to quite a bad area as it was all we could afford. We couldn't afford real rent in the place where we were. The schools here are dire... Especially senior schools. The state school in the nice area was much posher than our senior school (with lots of kids on bursaries and scholarships, living much more real lives than the ones in the state primary we left behind)... Hence my comment about Starmer and his "state school"...

And in expectation of some silly comments like "can you not just use the money to move a nicer area". For those who live and work on London, you will know the difference in prices between nice and bad areas... You can probably educate 10 kids privately to close that gap

Let’s be honest, choosing to implement the policy without the appropriate time to allow schools, parents and children to adjust was unnecessarily arbitrary and I think has really damaged them in this debate. Where is the kindness and compassion?

He is a hypocrite. At 16 he knew his views well enough but still remained in the school he liked and knew. A school that he very well knew wasn’t available to the masses. He also chose to send his own children to one of the most sought after primary school with a catchment an inch wide. Let’s be honest, it’s selection through house price.

He did this to trot out the sound bite that his kids were ‘state educated’. And the were. In a school surrounded by million pound houses.

I say it again - I understand why. We all want the best for our kids and do the very best we can. But let’s at least own it. Let’s not scream ‘equality’ whilst also playing the system, expecting the state to pay and (just to really annoy people) being sanctimonious about it.

Exactly but let's remember - some pigs are more equal...

What @MrsBennetsPoorNerves says.

Anyone cares to photoshop as appropriate?

Why have you assumed I can’t afford it? FYI I probably could have. I never considered it though so I don’t know. My kids went to a comp until 6th form when they went to grammar for A levels. I hope that clears up my private life for you? 🙄

Surely it can’t be beyond your comprehension that paying for something that you can get for free is a luxury / privilege. And should be subject to VAT? I’m not sure why such a simple principle needs “an argument”.

This is a very sad conversation. I come from an ex communist country. I recognize the language and many messages here. It feels weird and very unsettling... Good luck to you all ... Good luck to the UK...

People in the UK should study history more

Why would he move? I wouldn't have wanted to move mine if they were happy and settled.

We’re going to have to agree to differ. As far as I’m concerned, education, however it’s gained, is not a luxury. Just because you pay for something, doesn’t make it a luxury. I paid to privately educate my dc because, at seven years old, she came home from school with an injury that scarred her for life, she also had her knickers pulled down in front of a classroom full of her peers! The schools response! “She needs to stick up for herself and fit in better”! So no, it wasn’t a luxury for us, it was vital for my dc’s well-being and happiness. It meant many sacrifices, all of them worth it!

But most people, in this horrible circumstance, would move their child to another state school, the cost of private education being beyond their means.

@nottooimpressed "This is a very sad conversation. I come from an ex communist country. I recognize the language and many messages here."

Would you care to elaborate? Or just be cryptic from the sidelines?

This is the perfect reply. Bravo!

I think most people, including myself, would agree with your comment “I think that those who can pay to better society as a whole should. So yes those who can afford it (of whom I am one) should be taxed more.”

But that is not the issue here. The issue here is that a small portion of the population have suddenly been hit with a tax increase. Surely all people in our society should be paying taxes towards our country’s education of our young? Not just a few people?

People have said as private school parents we should have all been prepared for the 20% vat increase. How exactly? Last time I checked we were in a democracy - it was not certain labour was going to get in and it was not certain when they would be adding the tax if they did - and it certainly wasn’t clear this would come into effect midway through a school year.

Labour knows private schools have in their contracts a terms notice before a parent can stop private school fees - and so by starting the tax in January - they knew that all parents who could not afford the increase would have to a min pay a term of fees. I can imagine there are scenarios where private school parents have had to give a terms notice to leave without actually having a place for their child to go to yet. And there are definitely scenarios where parents have had to pay for a terms private school fees while they have already moved their child to a government school.

And how about parents who have a child of children at critical stages at school like we do? Our daughter is in her final year of 6th form - how exactly are we meant to find a government school offering her the exact same subjects she has been studying for the last year? Anyone who has had a child in 6th form knows that the kids are doing predicted grade exams etc for uni applications - moving them would be detrimental to their future and all parents with school age children know that.

No one disagrees that government schools need more investment - but this should come from the nation as a whole not a few parents who are already paying for education for their kids.

Really? A quick google would explain why. Inequality in a nutshell but if you want to get educated about it read more.

You know full well that does not represent the whole state school system and I don’t know why you’re pretending it does.

I’m sorry that happened to your DD but if you think the private school system is immune to abuse and bullying you’re very niaive.

That didn’t happen to my DD at comp or grammar school but that doesn’t mean anything because, like your story, it’s anecdotal.

And you had the luxury of being able to afford to take your child out. Not everyone does. Which is why it’s a luxury and a privilege.

In ‘your’ opinion. Have you seen statistics on how many of our young people are killing themselves due to bullying, there are no numbers on the number of children who have terrible mental health problems and issues due to bullying. In so many stories the same message comes across time and again from parents, the school would not help! Believe me I’ve researched this a lot after my own experience. Even today, parents get told the same message I was, their children are segregated instead of the perpetrators. Yes I know in some private schools they have bullying, but at most they don’t, and they didn’t at my dd’s so it was a win win for me. We will never agree and I will not engage with you further about this. Keeping your child safe, and educated is never a luxury!

so your opinion is that all state schools are festering pits of abuse and all private schools are perfect? Yeah, erm, bye! 🙄

I don't think it was cryptic at all. She said she came from an ex communist country and recognize a lot of messages here. A lot of language used here is socialist or even communist language. It didn't work out particularly well for those countries and somehow noone managed to achieve fairness and equality. It just created more poverty and more inequality but under a disguise of superficial equality which was even worse than open inequality. It only leads to greater corruption which is what ex communist countries are still working hard to crawl out from. Remember it wasn't only the Eastern European block but also Italy and other countries. Didn't work out for any of them (although North Korea claims it's worked out for them). Inequality is in the human nature. Sadly. But here we go... A democratic vote. Same as Brexit although this hasn't worked out either so far .. and even those who voted Brexit don't seem too sure about it anymore. I guess we have to wait and see?