To marvel at privately educated Keir Starmer's hypocrisy?

[Bursarysadness]

Both Kier Starmer and his wife are privately educated. Kier's senior school converted into a private school in the second year of his attendance and he has received a generous full bursary up until his A levels. He has built his life and his success on this education, supported to the end by the bursary funded by the same schools and parents he is now trying to destroy. It pains me as my children receive 50% bursaries from a brilliant local school. We've worked incredibly hard to cover the remaining 50% but it has been worth it, seeing how my children blossomed. We had a very different experience in their primary state schools, including bullying and racism. We don't live in a great area. We have just been told that the school will probably reduce all their bursaries to be able to lower the fees for the non bursary parents who are now struggling because of the VAT introduction. I don't know what the future for my children is now and they have so many close friends where they are. They are both academically brilliant and work very hard - hence the bursaries were granted. I feel so depressed that, from what is becoming obvious, they won't be able to benefit from the generosity of bursaries the same way Kier Starmer did when he was a child ..

You sound like a strange person @CurlewKate and a bit of a broken record. Do you work for the Labour Party?

In response to your question, try this... People say it would have been "unfair" for his parents to move him to a different school for the 6th form. So they "had to" apply for bursary because he was "already in school" so it would have been "unfair to expect him to move". He joined when it was not private.Not his fault.

How about - children currently in private schools should not find themselves in the position to have to move, possibly even mid year, because their parents can no longer afford it and it would be "unfair" to force them to move now. When they joined, there was no VAT on private schools so it's not their fault it's changed. Or their parents? It's not Starmer's fault his school became private right?

Can you see any similarity here? I guess this is what definitely makes him a total hypocrite. As another poster suggested, perhaps the rules should not change for children already at those schools?

KS went to a grammar school after taking the 11+. It was then converted to a private school where his fees were waived.

At 16 Keir joined the Labour Party Young Socialist Party, and used to go round town trying to get people to convert to being a socialist.

*Then Keir went to 6th Form Private School

As everyone states in these threads, going to a PS gives you unfair advantage and opportunities. You are buying grades.

As a result of his privileged education, that he got for FREE, his parents didn’t even pay for it, the other parents there subbed him, he was then went to Uni (all paid up) and then the elite of the elite, Oxford.

At 16, he became a socialist, a Trotskyite (basically a communist) and then chose to stay at his private sixth form. My son at 16 was able to make mature decisions about his 6th form and so was Keir.

So, I’ve had a free education, paid for by the other parents, I went to Oxford but really I’m a socialist.

The more I read about him the more I see that we have let in (he only won by default) a communist. You’ve literally voted in the next gen Jeremy Corbyn.

You sound like Donald T.

Absolutely. This country relies far too much on income tax through PAYE. We should increase CGT, though balancing that with incentivising entrepreneurship.
Very few people who can reasonably avoid it pay tax between 100-125k. Most people simply increase pension contributions.

You think @curlewkate sounds a bit strange. I think you sound a bit intellectually challenged.

It is no child's "fault" what kind of school they attend, and judging an adult as hypocritical because of decisions taken by their parents when they were children is beyond absurd.

If someone wasn't vaccinated as a child because they had anti vaxxer parents, would you find it hypocritical if they chose to vaccinate their own children and campaign in favour of vaccinations?

Contrary to what you seem to believe, people who attended private schools as children are permitted to formulate their own independent views on the rights and wrongs of private education when they're older. One of the benefits of a good education is that people learn to think, reflect and analyse.

@needcoffeefast I'll ignore the "strange person" comment- I presume you mean "thinks differently to you.
I can see what you mean about moving mid year. I have no idea whether Starmer had the choice at the time. And I have no idea whether the decision about VAT was one he made arbitrarily or whether it was made by the Treasury. It seems a pragmatic decision in exceptional circumstances to me. But I do think if he objected to the decision based on his own experience 45 years ago Cabinet would not have been impressed. Is that the only hypocrisy you see?

You’re right but won’t get much support here! Keir is a Trot and they are all hypocrites. Doesn’t help that the so-called Conservatives stuffed things up big time. The mean comments on here just about sum up the attitude of the government if the day, the same people who urge everyone on FB to “be kind” - your scrimping and hard work means nothing, not to mention the fact that you are using your own money to take the pressure off the state sector. Word of warning, when I took mine out of private because I had run out of scrimps and scrapes, the standard of their education dive-bombed.

Perfect points @WhysEverythingABallAche . I'm new here and have been scrolling through previous posts. A couple of people quoted "pigs are equal but some pigs are more equal". Omg totally!!

I never voted Corbyn as he was a bit scary but I always respected him - he lives and dies by his principles. You may not agree with him but you have to respect his consistency and integrity. But Starmer...? Ha!

I don't know how it works in your city / boroughs but in my borough it's kids who apply themselves to the 6th form, not the parents? Does it work differently elsewhere?

He was old enough to join the Socialist Party and campaign so he must have already known what he believed in?

But he wasn't a child, he was a young person. Old enough to join the Socialist Party and have strong clear opinions and beliefs?

As per my earlier post, I don't know how old your kids are but one of mine is entering 6th form in September and he had to do the application himself, from his email address and only ticking the box at the end that "he has parents' blessing". My friends' kids applying to different schools (both state and private) also had to do it themselves. For private they needed parents' signature because there is obviously financial commitment too.

Can't imagine it's different in different cities?

16 year olds could even get married until recently. They are not "children", they are "young people". This is why they are even treated differently if they commit a crime.

And now he's also old enough to change those beliefs, and remove unnecessary tax breaks on private school fees. What's your point?

This. I have friends who taught in private schools.

There was a huge amount of mental health issues, self harming, bullying, drug taking etc. Made the comprehensive school I attended sound like a fairytale!

But this is what makes him a hypocrite. He benefitted from the same education he is now trying to destroy, by his own admission.

Plus someone earlier was arguing he was a child and had no choice. He was not a child and he had a choice - he made the choice that directly contradicted his socialist principles

You're being ridiculous. A 16yo chose to stay on at his existing school for A-levels. He had the option of doing that. It wouldn't have been the end of the world if he had had to move, but he didn't need to, so he stayed put. Big deal.

But regardless, people are allowed to mature and develop their opinions as they get older and as they learn more about how the world works. We don't all have to get stuck forever with the opinions that we had at 16 when we have seen so little of the world. Intelligent, thinking people learn about the world around them and develop their understanding on the basis of what they see.

You're really clutching at straws here by trying to make an argument about hypocrisy. You sound desperate to cling on to your own privilege and it's a bit pathetic to watch.

So just to be clear. Starmer is a hypocrite because of a decision he may or may not have made 45 years ago when he was 16.

This is a non argument. I went to a pretty top end private school and benefited from that. I now spend my waking hours plotting their abolition.

People grow and change. What they believe in the absolute is not set when they are 16. Neither is how that manifests We can't predict what we are going to do 40+ years in the future or how we may react to things.

It's just idiotic to say that a man is hypocritical because of the choices they may or may not have made so long ago.

@needcoffeefast "But this is what makes him a hypocrite. He benefitted from the same education he is now trying to destroy, by his own admission"

He isn't trying to destroy it. He is applying a tax which the Labour Party has been open about for years.

You say you are a SEND parent @IFollowRivers ? Why wouldn't you send your children private if you can? You said in another post that they struggle. Or are you feeling bad that you can't give them what your parents gave you?

They've also been open about the fact that this is step one and the abolishion of private education is their ultimate goal

Because I am opposed to private education and I would consider myself a hypocrite if I sent my DC to private school when I feel that they are deeply morally wrong.

But you said in another post that they struggle?

He is where he is due to his free private education.

He’s a hypocrite to now deny other children the same opportunities. Whether he had no agency over his decisions years ago or not, this is who he is; a privately educated man, privileged to have it all paid for by someone else. How come no one ever said, oh poor Boris, he can’t help it that he went to Eton. No, Keir is a product of his environment.

My DH and I are both from council estates in north England. He is basically telling someone like me, who has invested lots of money in my DC’s education, not to get ahead of myself, and get back down where I belong. I’m discouraged from highly educating my DC, to be socially mobile.

Keir is actually becoming rapidly unpopular and the way he’s handled the riots hasn’t done him any favours. He’s being called 2-Tier Keir and TBH that also fits with education.

Two-tier Keir because both private and state schools exist? Well, yes. Do you oppose this kind of two-tier education system then?

Two Tier / two faced? Why doesn't he move to a different part of London and try an inner London school for his kids? You know, a place when poor kids live too?

BTW the Two-tier Keir thing about policing is a jibe that's only really being promoted by right-wing grifters and those that follow them.

@needcoffeefast not sure that I did but FWIW they have sometimes and I have worked with the school to improve things.

As I have said on numerous occasions on this thread I believe that if you have skin in the game you collaborate to improve the game. I've given up a considerable amount of time and energy supporting my DC school over the years and it has paid off.

So many people dismissing state education before they've even tried to help make it better.

As I have said numerous times on this thread also we should aspire for great education for all not just our own DC.

Interestingly this morning I asked one of my DC what they'd got out of their state school and they said they learned lots about different lives and that they felt better able to understand issues in the world. I paraphrase of course but this is a massive win for state education IMO.

So It really doesn't matter where Keir went to school or where I did for that matter. All that matters is that he wants a better society for all. Do you not think that a lot of the division we are seeing right now is down to fear of others?