To marvel at privately educated Keir Starmer's hypocrisy?

[Bursarysadness]

Both Kier Starmer and his wife are privately educated. Kier's senior school converted into a private school in the second year of his attendance and he has received a generous full bursary up until his A levels. He has built his life and his success on this education, supported to the end by the bursary funded by the same schools and parents he is now trying to destroy. It pains me as my children receive 50% bursaries from a brilliant local school. We've worked incredibly hard to cover the remaining 50% but it has been worth it, seeing how my children blossomed. We had a very different experience in their primary state schools, including bullying and racism. We don't live in a great area. We have just been told that the school will probably reduce all their bursaries to be able to lower the fees for the non bursary parents who are now struggling because of the VAT introduction. I don't know what the future for my children is now and they have so many close friends where they are. They are both academically brilliant and work very hard - hence the bursaries were granted. I feel so depressed that, from what is becoming obvious, they won't be able to benefit from the generosity of bursaries the same way Kier Starmer did when he was a child ..

@Kitte321 One of the problems is that any properly revolutionary ideas to reform the education system would be vigorously opposed by the same sort of people who are opposing VAT on private education but LOTS more of them. Because many (most?) people will only support equalising things if it means they don't have to relinquish any of their advantage. For example, if I was in charge (proper dictator in charge, not just prime minister) I would have comprehensive schools and an admissions system based on a ballot and fair banding, and with much improved school transport. But imagine the uproar....

I think people oppose equalizing when equalizing means brining things down rather than pulling things up...

And people are not scared to "relinquish advantage" but they are scared to relinquish quality

It might be worth noting that in Local Authorities with highly effective comprehensive schools, far fewer pupils go to independent schools. Teachers in the state system have much more exposure to the need for good behaviour management, differentiation and a wider range of teaching styles. Yes, parts of the state system is on its knees because of the Conservative governments imposing ill-considered changes and starving schools and LAs of funding. It doesn't mean that excellence has gone away; it has just become much harder to sustain.
The children in my family have all gone through the state system and come out with A / A* grades and places at Russell Group universities. More importantly, they have a good understanding of what life is like for people living with poverty and disadvantage. This has been particularly important for those entering medicine and the law.

The NHS style system wouldn’t work for two reasons;

1. The consultants are self employed for their private work - they’re employer is the NHS but work outside of that is run as their own business. Private schools employ their staff.

2. Consultants don’t need to be by the side of this patients at a set time every single week for a set period of time. Consultations are at mutually agreeable times. You can’t do that with a school time table as it needs to be both long term and consistent.

I’d be totally up for that.

There's absolutely zero evidence that putting money and resources into state schools results in levelling down.

Quite the opposite in fact.

The idea that giving schools more money for staff and resources somehow makes them less successful
schools is blatantly ridiculous!
Is that what the Tories were doing for 14 years, cutting money to states schools - trying to make the ‘better’???
Or was it more likely that they didn’t give a stuff about state schools as none of their pals used them and their children didn’t use them??

@Shaketherombooga we're in agreement

You haven't read this thread, have you? Noone here said state schools shouldn't get more money. They should but this is not the way to raise them. Each pupil cost tax payer about 7K per year. So children in private schools don't use this 7K. Saving. 7K per year per child is more than VAT would raise per year per child. Moving kids back to state schools would actually cost money. Simple maths

@Kitte321 "Could you also have a system similar to the NHS where private school teachers are required to provide some teaching in state schools? "

Not sure how that would help?

Average private school fees per term are, what, about £7K? Call it £20K a year. 20% VAT on that is 4K. So, yes, a private school pupil leaving private and going to state reflects a net loss of £3K to the government.

But even if half of all private school students leave private and go to state - a proportion that no-one, even in the most extreme of fear-mongering has suggested - VAT on private school fees would still represent a net gain to the government.

Simple maths.

For every additional student in state education there is extra funding. Extra costs too of course but economies of scale mean an overall win for the schools financially. The VAT money is also ringfenced for education I believe.

Why should a few 'exceptionally bright' benefit when quite a lot of bright could benefit more?

I don't understand the 'economies' of that.

I don't understand... So many people here said that schools would benefit if "privately educated pupils with parents who care etc..." moved to state as it would end inequality. But you don't want them to move, do you...? You want them to stay where they and just pay extra? This goes against so many posts here! It will only make private schools more elitists and will grow inequality not end it! With a private school group resenting the state sector, thus also growing class divide and class antagonisms. You just don't know what you want, do you?

@Bursarysadness you seem to be labouring under the misapprehension that those of us who don't have a problem with VAT on private schools have got together and agreed a unified set of beliefs and opinions on the matter.

I know some people want private schools abolished entirely. I don't agree with that nor do I think that'll happen. I just think that paying VAT on private school fees is not a bad idea, or represents an attack on human rights, or is the thin end of the wedge to VAT being put on everything from university fees to clouds.

I'm also amused by some of the bogus clutching-at-straws I've seen from private school parents such as your "simple maths".

Rachel Reeves wants them abolished completely

Even if many people don't leave the private sector, not wanting to uproot children, the enrollment at private schools has already suffered and many people just won't go in. So yes, it will impact the state sector more than you think

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-13739999/amp/Now-Scots-pupils-pay-price-Labours-politics-envy-two-private-schools-shut-following-Starmers-VAT-raid.html

Do you have evidence that Rachel Reeves represents a unified opinion from everyone who is ok about VAT on private schools?

Hang on, there's going to be VAT on private schools? That's massive news, how come no ones started threads on this before?

Sorry but NO.
READ that article - school in massive debts, parents apparently got together a couple of years ago and raise £1.2 MILLION in 48hrs to save it last time, falling pupils numbers, undersubscribed so not enough pupils to keep it going, mis-management - so the people who own it decided to make a BUSINESS decision to shut it down.
FUCK ALL to do with VAT.

And quite a lot to do with - does Scotland need a Catholic boarding school at all?

Politics of envy, what a load of old shite.

Always good to see unbiased evidence to back up a point!

The Times already ran a story on that Scottish school where even their biased slant reported the facts- the school was already in a financial shitshow already because who the F sends their kids away anymore??? And numbers of Catholics - dropping and dropping as more and more abuse is revealed

The end.