To marvel at privately educated Keir Starmer's hypocrisy?

[Bursarysadness]

Both Kier Starmer and his wife are privately educated. Kier's senior school converted into a private school in the second year of his attendance and he has received a generous full bursary up until his A levels. He has built his life and his success on this education, supported to the end by the bursary funded by the same schools and parents he is now trying to destroy. It pains me as my children receive 50% bursaries from a brilliant local school. We've worked incredibly hard to cover the remaining 50% but it has been worth it, seeing how my children blossomed. We had a very different experience in their primary state schools, including bullying and racism. We don't live in a great area. We have just been told that the school will probably reduce all their bursaries to be able to lower the fees for the non bursary parents who are now struggling because of the VAT introduction. I don't know what the future for my children is now and they have so many close friends where they are. They are both academically brilliant and work very hard - hence the bursaries were granted. I feel so depressed that, from what is becoming obvious, they won't be able to benefit from the generosity of bursaries the same way Kier Starmer did when he was a child ..

I think pp is suggesting that anyone on MN who presents a logical reasonable counter point to negativity about the Labour Party or Keir Starmer must be Angela Raynor. While it's good to see AR held in such high regard by Labours opponents, the is that you..? 'joke' is so old on MN it has whiskers.

I know how old it is!!

It is so left wing on this site . I just wish it was more equal with more differing opinions. No way can say any post anything remotely negative about Labour without twenty people then getting involved , jumping down the posters throat and reporting the poster for whatever..
It’s really silly and biased. A fair and honest debate would be so much better.

Just my opinion and all that and yeah, I know how old the “ Is that you.. “ joke is….

Labour won- the Tories lost. This policy was in their manifesto, and even if it wasn't, judicial reviews aren't there to subvert democracy.

So you are upset because other people will be more able to afford what you have for your kids? Am I missing something? Other people who are currently paying full price? When you're paying 50%?

I marvel at people’s inability to spell Sir Keir’s name correctly, when they must have read it countless times and are sufficiently interested to post about him.

You are a lawyer too?

Jujdicial review can be used for all kinds of things including government policy in all sorts of areas from Rwanda to much else. My own view is it is used far far too much and the law should be changed to cut it back , but given it is there currently to be used and is massively over exploited in loads of sectors I do not see why this potentially unlawful plan to impose VAT should not be challenged. I believe Ms Begum's lawyers used it ( although they lost) in relation to her challenge to her exclusion from the UK.

Give it a rest. Learn how to spell Keir

I'm not a labour voter and not a Tory voter either. I voted Lib Dem as I wasn't super convinced about labour. However, I am now super convinced I will never ever vote Labour in my life. Ever. I think the way they go about things is low, sneaky and unprincipled. I think they've only deepened the social divide and have created even more resentment and hatred in the society. Now the poor hate the rich but now also the rich will start hating the poor. This is toxic. Yes, the private school will now become even more elitists as hard working successful middle class parents will not be able to afford them. So it will become a privilege of "old money". The clique will become even smaller and tighter. The divide and the feeling of "us against them" is greater than it's ever been in the UK (on my 50 years of life). I wasn't fan of the Tories but what's happening now is awful and I think we will sadly only see the full extent in years to come

I think the way they go about things is low, sneaky and unprincipled.

How so? Give specific examples, please.

I think they've only deepened the social divide

How so? In only just over a month?

At my children’s state school, the parents who care and their children are treated the same as those who don’t - issues aren’t dealt with, emails to the school are ignored, teachers are too scared to use the science labs due to children’s behaviour, no homework is set, there are large combined/mixed-year classes in the hall due to a shortage of teachers, there are no extra-curricular activities. All of the other local schools are full, so children can’t easily be moved and despite popular myth on here, the bright children don’t do well just due to being bright, well not without private tutoring anyway.

And people so obsessed about the spelling of Keir's name should give it a rest. It's really not a point in this conversation and, for all it's worth, my own phone tried to autocorrect it the same way in the past. It's irrelevant. It's not part of the argument at all. He can be Keir, Kier, Dave or Steve. What does it change?

Most people don’t choose where they are educated.

Get over it.

@BIWI - they knew about the budget "black hole". They were deliberately vague about "tax increases" because they knew they would increase them. Apart from a few clear point, vat on schools etc, their manifesto was super vague which was pointed out by many pundits. They didn't have a plan other than let Tories fail. And what about taking the gas / energy support away from pensioners? Other than those on benefits? There are lots of pensioners (my parents) who are just about managing.

And yes, re: the divide - we have friends who just fell out with other friends (after 30 years friendship) over the schools and VAT debate. It was the pro VAT people who cursed and ended up being verbally abusive

I think that says more about your friends than it does about the VAT debate.

And it was clear they had been planning for quite some time before the election given how quickly they hit the ground running. The Tories failed all by themselves quite spectacularly - I’m not sure what else Labour were meant to do other than plan their own strategy for the election and gaining power.

Also, how can you argue that introducing VAT half way through the school year, with only 1 term notice is not malicious and designed to punish / cause harm and disruption? It doesn't give people time to plan and find alternative options. They did it when most people were on holidays and then the schools were on holidays. So how do you visit / contact schools in August? You can't. It's nasty. So people can't do anything until September and have to move children after 1 term? If they find a place? What about children starting a new school this September? Do they do one term in the new school and then move? Nasty nasty

@Whatamess0 "However, I am now super convinced I will never ever vote Labour in my life. Ever. I think the way they go about things is low, sneaky and unprincipled. I think they've only deepened the social divide and have created even more resentment and hatred in the society."

Wow-obviously the most efficient government ever. All that in 4 weeks!

@CurlewKate hatred and divide is very easy to achieve. It's cohesion and order that takes effort, thought and insight

Also, how can you argue that introducing VAT half way through the school year, with only 1 term notice is not malicious and designed to punish / cause harm and disruption?

They were very clear throughout the election that they planned to add VAT to school fees, so someone starting their child in a school in September surely would have the foresight to think about whether they could still pay the fees with VAT on top and make decision accordingly. I’ll be interested to see how many children actually do end up being removed from their private school as a result of VAT, I suspect it will be fewer than anticipated.

@Whatamess0 A few more specific examples would be good.

You are vastly overinflating the importance of this policy to the general public. Its had a hugely disproportionate amount of attention on MN due to a very vocal minority keeping it in view. In reality if you are not one of the parents of the 6% of privately educated children in the UK, while you may have a passing interest or even a strong view for or against, it's not going to touch your life in any meaningful way.
Out in the real world there are huge swathes of the population who don't have children, and 94% of those who do have nothing to do with the private school system.
If the poor 'hate the rich', for which there is little evidence this has become a new issue since the change of government, its not going to be because VAT is imposed on private schooling. Its going to be due to a sense of unfairness that they can't afford lifes essentials while other people enjoy luxury. If the rich hate the poor, well, I can't imagine why they would, as they have little power to impact their lives, but again, I can't see them hating them for the introduction of VAT.
If you want a reason not to be 'super keen' on Labour then surely you can find that in elements of their manifesto you disagree with. No need for all the hyperbole about divisions, that if they exist will have preceeded the last month by some margin and taken root under former administrations.

It matters because it's about respect. It's also ignorant to continually spell someone's name wrongly when you've been corrected.

Even the OBR didn't know about the state of the finances.

As reported here

I don't think the opposition parties ever have a full picture of what's going on until they are voted in. So yes, to some degree TLP knew that the figures were bad - but they didn't expect them to be as bad as they actually were/are.

@Whatamess0

the private school will now become even more elitists as hard working successful middle class parents will not be able to afford them. So it will become a privilege of "old money".

'twas ever thus. Only 7% of children, I believe, attend private school in the UK. So forgive me if I can't get worked about this becoming an even smaller percentage.

Good. Private education is iniquitous.

And what about taking the gas / energy support away from pensioners? Other than those on benefits? There are lots of pensioners (my parents) who are just about managing.

I think this is a really good way to save money. Moving it from a universal payment to one measured by need. Those who really need it - i.e. those on some kind of benefit - will still receive it. Those of us (and I include myself) for whom it was a 'really nice to have' extra will manage without it. If your parents are just about managing, then they should receive it. If they aren't, then either they don't qualify, as they aren't on benefits, or they aren't claiming the benefits that they need to be claiming.