How do men get away with this?

[leavethingsalone]

My friend's daughter is absolutely stunning (and a lovely modest girl). She's 18. She often gets told by strangers how beautiful she is.

That's all great, but she's recently started going clubbing and has come home upset because of the attention.

Most recently she was dancing and a guy came up behind her and was grinding on her from behind. He wouldn't leave her alone. Luckily her friends saw what was going on and stopped it!

I'm sure this happens to lots of other young women too!

She's (hopefully) off to uni in September and has been looking forward to this, but is now starting to feel unsafe as her parents won't be nearby to look out for her!

When will men realise that this simply isn't appropriate behaviour and that women should feel safe when they are out?

I actually agree with you that most people who go to a nightclub will end up pissed or high.

What I don't understand or agree with is why you assume that has to go hand in hand with accepting and expecting a degree of sexual assault.

A friend of mines 22yo son received a lifetime ban from a club 2 years ago because he was drunk, hit on a woman who rejected him and "got a bit handsy" (to use their words - my friend is friends with the manager of the club and one of the bouncers). Strong words were had, my friend refused his son's request to have a word and get the ban lifted and told him he deserved it.

They certainly didn't think it should just be something that women should expect.

It's awful isn't it? I do think you were lucky though that you only experienced this a few times (obviously I don't think you were lucky to experience it at all, just that it was not more often).

I'm 60, and this was a massive problem in the 80s when I was clubbing. Just grim behaviour - I never actually said anything at the time (just moved away) but god I wish that I had the confidence back then that I have now...I would have created such a scene! Nobody did though...as PP have said, it was very much an accepted 'thing' back then. Women 'put up and shut up' - which makes me sick to my stomach now!

As for the OPs question...men will never stop acting like this unless (until) women are given the protection and support that they need. And that's not anytime soon - just look at what's happening in the olympics right now...men are utterly the priority and women are, once again, having to 'put up and shut up' - and unbelievably, made to apologise for 'upsetting the man' who battered her! 🤬

It happened to me aged 17 in a crowd around a market stall, I said loudly “move back” and the stall holder saw what was happening and shouted very loudly “fuck off you pervert”.

The crowd took up the cry and he rushed off shamefacedly through the market.

After that I always spoke up for myself and it gave me the confidence to deal with grimy little growers.

I think it’s very offensive to suggest that women should expect to be sexually harassed in nightclubs just because you think it’s not a big deal. That’s why I pity you.

Nope. No one reacted.

I guess it would have been different if I was a young girl?

YANBU. If your friend's daughter is heading off to a uni town the security/bouncers are pretty good at stepping in if they see men behave aggressively/inappropriately towards young women. Practical points: always stay with a friend or group, mixed group even better, never get too drunk, sharpen your elbows if men get too close or exhibit unwelcome behaviour and also move away. If all else fails definitely complain to security and they will normally ask the guy to leave.

I know, @twentysevendresses. Just awful. And do NOT get me started about the Olympics!

Tbh looking at your responses I'd be questioning if you'd been to one since the 1990s. Times have changed greatly, with the young generation having quite a different attitude. Most young women these days would not think of this as something that went with the territory. Decent young men would not grind against an 18 year old girl from behind on the dance floor without any indication their attentions were welcome. Yes creeps and sex pests are disappointingly still with us, but there has been a shift from the old school view you seem to be hanging on to, that it's 'to be expected'. My 20s DSs and their friends would have a variety of names for this type of man, none of which would be complimentary.

Understand the point you’re trying to make. But even in 1980s/90s it wasn’t seen as something that went with the territory. It was expected not to happen and men who tried it were seen as gropey sex pests. Some women thought it was ‘just what happens’/laughed it off/froze/were too afraid/unconfident to call it out, as I imagine some are today. But there was never a time it was acceptable or expected. And I don’t think men generally were less respectful then. In some ways, it seems to be worse now.

Exactly this. I don’t think I know one woman that hasn’t experienced some form of this type of behaviour from a random man.

@NoisyDenimShaker

It really was.

I am so fortunate I was out with a group who were so supportive and knew how wrong this guy’s behaviour was.

Unfortunately that was not my experience as bar staff in the late 80s early 90s. It absolutely was considered part of the job that we got our arses slapped when we were out collecting glasses. It was also considered hilarious that the landlord stood in our way so we had to squeeze past him to get to the drinks, or that he'd tell us to get the glasses from the bottom shelf so we had to bend down. I was 18 then and needed the money, and it was the second place I'd worked with that type of thing seen as the norm. I hated it, but if asked I'd have said then what the other poster did 'it's what you expect from drunk men in bars'.
I'm not sure men are innately more respectful of women today, but I do think there is more outward disapproval of some of the worst forms of misogyny which checks some behaviour. We no longer have Benny Hill as family entertainment or topless 16 year olds in newspapers for example.

Must mean we have to accept it then, right?

Appalling. Your employer was breaking the law (Sex Discrimination Act 1975), after a 1983 ruling (https://www.genderequalitiesat50.ed.ac.uk/timeline/first-ruling-that-sexual-harassment-is-discrimination/).

Though, granted, this has since been tightened by the Equality Act (2010) and Worker Protection Act (2023), which comes into force in a couple of months.

But, of course, not everyone knows about or has advice/support to enforce their rights, especially when they’re young and need a job, or lack the backing of a trade union.

Sadly, though we’ve seen off the likes of Benny Hill and Page 3, we’re now dealing with the influence of online porn/Only Fans, not to mention the pernicious effects of men like Tate. I even think women are alarmingly becoming more sexualised on TV and in some workplaces (e.g. Apprentice candidates running around in the ‘professional’ women’s wear of bodycon dresses and 3” stilettos, while the men wear trousers and comfortable shoes).

But just my thoughts.

She needs to say fuck off and call bouncers to kick them out.

Yes he was absolutely breaking the law. Including later on sacking me when I was pregnant because 'no one comes here to see a fat barmaid' I wish I knew then all I know now. On the plus side, its now my work to try to make sure women know as much of their rights as possible and support them to implement them and those experiences inspired me.
I agree with you entirely about the modern day threats. I often think its like hydra, cut off one source and another two appear in its place.

Back in 2003 I had someone come up behind me when I was dancing with my friends and start grinding me and he had an erection

He went flying and I've never been to a townie club since. Though it happened at a dance club night ( you would frequently get townie people come in) and he was pretending to be drunk, backing into me and rubbing up and down on me.. and I wad fucking old and not remotely attractive.

The bouncers threw him out

Yes, but they aren't targeted because of their gender. Women are. It's actually unusual for men to be randomly attacked. It's almost always a robbery or a disagreement in a bar that somebody decides to escalate to a physical fight. Your friends are outliers if there was no robbery or argument as a motive.

I can't believe this kind of shit is still going on FGS! When I was younger and this happened to me (too many times to even remember) I'd first tell him to back off, then if he continued to fuck off, and then if he still persisted he'd get a punch in the face. If he didn't want to be punched he shouldn't have been touching me when I said no.

I agree with others that she needs to come up with techniques and gain a bit of confidence in order to deal with this kind of thing.

When I was 17 my middle aged boss used to chase me. If he caught me he lifted me up from behind and swung me round. I hated being near him. Nothing has changed sadly.

Sadly this doesn't stop as you age. I've seen it happen more than once to my friend who is in her 50s, and it's happened to me in my 30s. The men just get older. It's gross!

You call a sexual assault "being hit on?"
You are living in the wrong century.

A dance move? 😆 Grinding a dick on somebody without consent 100% is sexual assault and can be prosecuted as such.
Talk about stupid comments. Yours takes the cake.
The only context that matters is consent.

How sad.