Dressage WTF

[OrkneyGirl]

I have just been watching Olympic dressage...a poor horse moving its hooves in time to 'Another one bites the dust'...surely this is done for human entertainment only. The horse wouldn't do this naturally. Commentator saying the horse 'clearly loves moving to the beat'. What a load of crap. Years of making the horse move unnaturally. Probably with a stick or whip. AIBU that this sport is about privileged humans dominating a beautiful animal. Makes me so sad...and angry!

It's nowhere near as cruel as the meat, dairy or egg industries op which I'm sure you buy from without a minutes thought

Why the fuck are you so obsessed by the music element? It is purely incidental, yes to entertain, but the horses really don't care whether it's Taylor Swift or Mozart, and the music will be rarely used. The vast majority of training will be done without music. The competitions could be done in silence and it wouldn't make an iota of difference.

Agree with this, it’s awful.

OP, maybe go and comment on a subject that you actually have some understanding of?
The way you are bringing your opinion of the background of the riders and conflating it with your lack of knowledge of horses is laughable.

These aren't the same animals that have been hanging around since the Industrial Revolution though.

Where I live, a few decades ago everyone would have had a donkey, but they've been phased out as people have tractors and water pumps now. No financial rewards in donkey sports (not to mention the vast amounts of money laundering that goes on at the top levels of horse breeding).

Since learning all we have learnt recently about dressage, I agree OP. It needs serious investigation.

I say this as an ex-horse rider.

Thanks for this, it is interesting. I’ve been trying to find more facts because my instinct is that dressage is cruel ( and I’m not yet convinced it isn’t), but I admit I know nothing about it. I think, as in all controversy, it is useful to gather as many facts as possible before passing judgement ( though often easier to say than do).

@Cherrysoup maybe you were on the thread a few months past about the Cavalry Horse in London? I learned so many interesting things about horses on that thread, they sound like absolute (dickheads!) characters I have never been a horse person or in their company but it was so interesting, between them opening each others stalls & being spooked by leafs

I also can't get my head around this objection to setting the moves to music (or really adding accompanying music). In women's artistic gymnastics the floor exercise is set to music (though not the men's?), and I think in rhythmic gymnastics it's all to music. So is synchronised swimming.

Well yes, I know that.

I assume you have the same objection to all owned animals then, including guide dogs, sheep dogs, pleasure horses, pet dogs/cats, chickens being kept for their eggs, sheep bred for wool or livestock bred for meat?

YABU OP. These horses will have THE best of everything, the best riders, trainers, living conditions, nutrition - literally the best life a horse could have. They won't have some amateur rider kicking aimlessly and pulling on the bit.

They have their personalities, same as dogs. Mine was scared of bikes and umbrellas. Once, a parent was waiting for her child after a lesson, twirling her umbrella at the top of the lane, cue much snorting and spooking. I had to ask her to put it down. Then he had a freak because a child on his bike kept ringing the bell and he hated it. They’re quite dangerous when spooking, no thought but to escape the scary thing. I admire the control of dressage riders, but it’s not my idea of fun.

True, but those sports don’t involve animals. I think that’s ( potentially) the issue?

I’ll preface this by saying I’m a horse owner, having ridden since I was a young child and worked at showjumping and evening yards. So I know what I’m talking about.

Sadly there is a huge anount a cruelty and abuse in the equestrian world. I’d say if us almost par for the course (from blue tongues, bleeding mouths and sides, some commonly used training gadgets, to ignoring lameness, long periods of stabling and isolation, overfeeding etc etc..).

This is an excellent book on the topic

I have 3 retired very well bred warmbloods. They are extremely content living out their days in a herd on a hillside. These horses do not desire a life if high stress and competition.

@User3962 a lot of the high-end competition horses don't live out though, do they? AFAIK many spend their lives in stables when not being ridden, so they can't get their energies out "naturally" like pet/pleasure horses can.

They really don’t. Abusive practices (eg rolkur) are common amongst top dressage riders.
“The best” for a horse is 24/7 turnout in a stable herd with appropriate shelter, feeding and rigging. That’s all. Competition and travel are extremely stressful for horses, and they don’t give a hoot about expensive feed, stabling etc.

It is not how 'dressage people' deal with unresponsive horses. You've seen a video of CDJ abusing a horse and assume everyone does that. You complete ignoramus. You clearly know nothing about horses or horse owners. I don't agree with dressage either but the level of hatred for the horse community here is ridiculous and just demonstrates that the majority of you are nowhere near it.

So you do own an animal! Not different at all, there is no difference between any domestic animal ownership.

I would strongly disagree with that, to be honest.

Horses should live outdoors as much as possible - ideally with 24/7 turnout though sometimes that needs to be restricted due to laminitis or injury. Top end competition horses live in stables and often only get "out" to work. It goes completely against nature.

I don't disagree with horses being used for dressage as a general rule, but I don't agree with how most top end horses are kept.

That’s right, Most in the UK will get some turnout individually for a few hours a day. How cruel is that? Keeping chicken in battery cages is widely agreed to be cruel so why do we subject horses to such restrictions on movement? Ridden exercise is no alternative to appropriate turnout.

this is exactly what I'm talking about! That thread was an education, I never kneww they were so dramatic & they're so huge, I actually can't imagine how scary on an open or country road it must be as a rider, I see horses a lot here (beside the Phoenix Park) but it must be a thought when you could get thrown, have you had any injuries? My friend (army) broken collar bone, almost a face stamp

also "umbrellas" 🤔😆

Why would you assume that? My objection at the start of this sub-thread debate was horses for entertainment (which is the vast majority of them), not working animals.

I do have objections to animal cruelty in food production, but I'm not extreme about it - free range and organic is fine by me. Likewise as long as working animals are treated well I have no problem with them.

I also have no issues with companion animals like cats and dogs (except for the weirdos who practice inbreeding, like the Kennel Club), because their evolution and domestication was a very different process and they are symbiotic with humans. Again, though, only if they're treated well. Every house around me has at least one dog and I am very uncomfortable with how many of them are living.

I'm sure vegans and animal rights activists would find my position hypocritical, but that's where I land.

I know that most horsey people treat their animals well, but they can't deny that the whole horse world only exists for human pleasure, and if they think the financial incentives at the elite level aren't sufficient for a great deal of cruelty to be going on, they're kidding themselves. Air-conditioned horse boxes and the best food etc etc are ultimately about protecting the investment, and they don't preclude cruelty in training.

It really is horrendous how many horses don't have access to proper turnout - I also know of a lot of pleasure horses who are stabled for more hours than they're out in the field :(

This really isn't the gotcha you seem to think it is, but people will go to any lengths to convince themselves that horse sport has only a few bad apples.