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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

to think these people in Sunderland are not "protesting".

688 replies

Misthios · 02/08/2024 22:29

They are not protestors. They are not protesting. They are common or garden thugs and criminals who are causing criminal damage, setting police offices on fire and attacking police officers.

Total scumbags.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cnl0lkrxgvxo

Building on fire

Protesters in Sunderland set car on fire and clash with police

Northumbria Police says its officers have been "subjected to serious violence".

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cnl0lkrxgvxo

OP posts:
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26
MichaelAndEagle · 03/08/2024 18:10

Is it kicking off in Sunderland again? I've seen the Sunderland Empire has cancelled the show that was on tonight at the last minute.
I really hope not, how can the police be expected to handle this night after night?

EsmeGythaMagrat · 03/08/2024 18:17

MichaelAndEagle · 03/08/2024 18:10

Is it kicking off in Sunderland again? I've seen the Sunderland Empire has cancelled the show that was on tonight at the last minute.
I really hope not, how can the police be expected to handle this night after night?

From what I’ve read, it’s a large group of teenagers rather than the large turnout from last night.
most bad enough though and I don’t blame the Empire for being cautious.

Rummly · 03/08/2024 18:22

MichaelAndEagle · 03/08/2024 18:10

Is it kicking off in Sunderland again? I've seen the Sunderland Empire has cancelled the show that was on tonight at the last minute.
I really hope not, how can the police be expected to handle this night after night?

What show has been cancelled?

Littletreefrog · 03/08/2024 18:37

Its an Abba show that has been cancelled. 30 minutes after they announced it was still going ahead. Its just teenage yobs who think smashing windows and frightening people makes them look like hard men. Lots of posts of them on Facebook where they are easily identifiable so hopefully the police will catch up with them.

Rummly · 03/08/2024 18:39

Littletreefrog · 03/08/2024 18:37

Its an Abba show that has been cancelled. 30 minutes after they announced it was still going ahead. Its just teenage yobs who think smashing windows and frightening people makes them look like hard men. Lots of posts of them on Facebook where they are easily identifiable so hopefully the police will catch up with them.

Thank you.

So an ABBA tribute show has been cancelled? At least some small good has come out of this ugly business.

MrsSkylerWhite · 03/08/2024 18:42

Littletreefrog
Lots of posts of them on Facebook where they are easily identifiable so hopefully the police will catch up with them

So not just violent but thick as mince too. How stupid must you be to post your nefarious activities on SM?

PandoraSox · 03/08/2024 18:54

There are folk on Twitter doing sterling work identifying the idiots.

SinnerBoy · 03/08/2024 18:54

MichaelAndEagle · Today 18:10

Is it kicking off in Sunderland again? I've seen the Sunderland Empire has cancelled the show that was on tonight at the last minute.

Oh no! My mate Becky is door security at the Empire. I saw some of the footage yesterday and they were outside.

Hatfullofwillow · 03/08/2024 19:17

Hatfullofwillow · 03/08/2024 00:55

I'll be joining the counter protest in Nottingham. They need to get the message they're not welcome & they're outnumbered.

I'd estimate the counter protesters outnumbered the racists 10-1, cans & bottles lobbed and a few scuffles mostly between the racists & police but their numbers seriously dwindled.

I wouldn't go out later in town though, bound to be some pissed up stragglers causing trouble.

TattiePants · 03/08/2024 19:41

It does seem to be mainly teenagers creating problems tonight. A branch of Hays Travel has had its windows smashed. They clearly know bugger all about local businesses because Hays are a brilliant employer and they do a huge amount for the city.

A Muslim man I know that must spend every spare hour he has doing work to make the city better has been interviewed by the BBC outside his mosque. Whilst telling them how much he loves the city, a van went past and shouted racist abuse at him. You just couldn't make it up.

MistressoftheDarkSide · 03/08/2024 19:49

And the mainstream media has just handed out the foundations of a whole new conspiracy theory about the perpetrator of the original crime. Not going to link because I'm too busy facepalming that they couldn't have just quietly scrubbed the information but it's out there now and not hard to find.

I despair, I honestly do.

AlviarinAesSedai · 03/08/2024 19:52

I feel sorry for the business owners. The money they lost last night and the money tonight.
Sheepfolds Stables opening weekend, hopefully as they are other side of river not too affected.

TattiePants · 03/08/2024 20:01

AlviarinAesSedai · 03/08/2024 19:52

I feel sorry for the business owners. The money they lost last night and the money tonight.
Sheepfolds Stables opening weekend, hopefully as they are other side of river not too affected.

Absolutely. On a lovely night like tonight the businesses around High St West and Keel Square should have been packed. Sheepfolds seems to have been relatively unaffected last night but I know people from my side of the river have cancelled going there this weekend.

QueenOfHiraeth · 03/08/2024 20:43

Rather late to point this out but several posters have suggested police need water cannons for these events.
Boris Johnson bought them for London after the 2011 riots, Teresa May as Home Secretary refused him permission to use them and Sadiq Khan sold them for scrap some years later
www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-46258584

DdraigGoch · 03/08/2024 22:35

GinAndBeerIt · 03/08/2024 06:40

You never see those yobs and hooligans out rioting in the depths of winter do you.
Funny that.
I remember the UK riots in the 80s, the first one being the Brixton riot in April, which was very warm and more followed in the summer, predominantly in July.
Come winter, they're all comfy in front of the TV with their outrages left forgotten on the doorstep!

Probably the reason why London hasn't seen much trouble. Wasn't there some heavy rain there?

EasternStandard · 03/08/2024 22:37

DdraigGoch · 03/08/2024 22:35

Probably the reason why London hasn't seen much trouble. Wasn't there some heavy rain there?

Not today

Rummly · 03/08/2024 22:42

EasternStandard · 03/08/2024 22:37

Not today

There was predicted to be some rain, but the clouds were all blown away by a great volume of hot air from Downing Street and City Hall.

DdraigGoch · 04/08/2024 00:05

EasternStandard · 03/08/2024 22:37

Not today

Oh right, I heard something on the radio mentioning a heavy downpour.

In other news, the Telegraph is reporting that it may be Russia that is stirring things up:
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2024/08/03/obscure-russian-linked-news-outlet-fuelling-violence/

MistressoftheDarkSide · 04/08/2024 00:57

https://www.spiked-online.com/2024/08/02/stop-blaming-russia-for-the-southport-riots/

And Spiked says we're big meanies for even thinking that and not taking responsibility for our own failings.

Honestly the world is just farcical at the moment.....

I'm glad I don't have any vodka in the house because I might resort to doing shots through my eyeballs.

But my cat would thoroughly disapprove, so sober and cynical I shall remain.

Stop blaming Russia for the Southport riots

‘Foreign disinformation’ has become a convenient excuse for the failures of officialdom.

https://www.spiked-online.com/2024/08/02/stop-blaming-russia-for-the-southport-riots

SinnerBoy · 04/08/2024 03:55

AlviarinAesSedai · Yesterday 19:52

Sheepfolds Stables opening weekend, hopefully as they are other side of river not too affected.

Is that where they have a new little brewery?

dottiehens · 04/08/2024 08:12

MumblesParty · 03/08/2024 00:52

I agree that these are racist thugs who are enjoying an opportunity to fight. But whilst they aren’t thinking of the NHS or public services as they throw bricks, it is nevertheless being done against a backdrop of resentment and dissatisfaction. Governments ignore an unhappy population at their peril, and dismissing the riots as being the behaviour of a small irrelevant racist minority is a dangerous mistake.

Edited

I was reading quite a lot of comments in newspapers. Not swearing or aggressive comments like the ones you see here from the kindest side. Many people who come across as decent were feeling that governments keep ignoring serious issues and concerns. There is definitely a sentiment of not being heard, concerns about pensioners being scapegoated and the two tier policing. In short I think you are right about dismissing this is dangerous and would backfired.

MistressoftheDarkSide · 04/08/2024 08:55

Once again, I'll just make it clear I abhor the actions of these rioters and have no truck with their alleged "cause" whatsoever.

What is concerning me alot is the fact that they are painting targets on the backs of their own apparent "demographic " too.

The assumptions are that they are uneducated "benefit scum" - football fans, tattooed, fuelled by alcohol and whatever else, and basically criminal.

We already see alot of judgement piled on people who are in receipt of benefits for whatever reason. Again, not going to claim that there aren't issues with the system, but in reality most people on benefits aren't lawless nor happy with it (like me).

In Canada the peaceful trucker protests ended up with protesters having their bank accounts frozen and funding removed to stop the protests.

It wouldn't be beyond the wisdom of the authorities to take a more punitive stance across the board, as the attitude is that the rioters probably have too much time on their hands and enough disposable income to wreak havoc. A wholesale clamp down on benefit claimants would appease a section of the rightly appalled who also like having a group of scapegoats to blame for all the country's ills, which is sometimes framed as "the poor" these days.

The point I'm trying to make is that these rioters may not just end up the architects of their own, quite deserved and appropriate oppression, but the populist view might mean they take a whole lot of innocent people with them as collateral damage.

And thereby we have another can of worms all round.

The more I think about it, the more potential for absolute societal breakdown I see. I'm hoping that the vast majority of people can see it too and it won't come to pass, but a desire for revenge and punishment is of course natural. But it has to be based on a case by case approach not pointing at a whole section of society and making them "Untermensch".

The idiots rioting right now are absolutely begging for having the rights they do have to be taken away by the authorities they are allegedly appealing to. If they carry on I wonder what they'll think when we're in Social Credit territory, the Internet censored far more than it is now and their freedom curtailed in an unprecedented way. They want their "rights and freedoms" but they're actually begging for a more authoritarian society, which will affect everyone down the line.

JoanOfMarch · 04/08/2024 09:48

dottiehens · 04/08/2024 08:12

I was reading quite a lot of comments in newspapers. Not swearing or aggressive comments like the ones you see here from the kindest side. Many people who come across as decent were feeling that governments keep ignoring serious issues and concerns. There is definitely a sentiment of not being heard, concerns about pensioners being scapegoated and the two tier policing. In short I think you are right about dismissing this is dangerous and would backfired.

Agree with this Dottie. The two tier policing will be interesting if counter riots take place. Or we may to wait until the next protest by anyone other than 'far right' to se see how the police handle it.

No way do I support thuggery and violence. The idiots causing mayhem need to be punished, but there's a lot of people in attendance desperate to be heard who do not act like a beer-up, sweary lout.

lljkk · 04/08/2024 09:50

YabaJaba · 03/08/2024 10:47

We live in a democracy love.

Democracy values the opinions of all its citizens, regardless of race, gender, social status, or any other factor

The difference between Majoritarianism & Democracy is important. Majoritarianism is basically multi-step mob rule, whereas Democracy has explicit protections for minorities and due process about when civil rights may be waived based on egalitarian principles, only waived thru state action or by individuals using proportional force in self-defence, can't be waived by a mob.

The protesters just trashed the CAB in one location. I wonder what their justification was for that one.

It's very sad that we live in a time when ANGER is so important and admired & promoted and the angriest person wins the arguments and sets the public agenda, gets to claim they have the most valid opinion just by virtue of being the most emotional party. Irk.

Fluufer · 04/08/2024 09:56

JoanOfMarch · 04/08/2024 09:48

Agree with this Dottie. The two tier policing will be interesting if counter riots take place. Or we may to wait until the next protest by anyone other than 'far right' to se see how the police handle it.

No way do I support thuggery and violence. The idiots causing mayhem need to be punished, but there's a lot of people in attendance desperate to be heard who do not act like a beer-up, sweary lout.

If people want to be heard they need to make their points in an appropriate way. We just had an election, they can petition, protest peacefully, engage their MPs. Democracy unfortunately doesn't mean that everyone gets their way all the time.
It isn't two tier policing when only one group is starting fires.

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