To be bullied into making a PIP application by EXH when I don't think I'm eligible?.

[Wishitwasstraightforward]

I have a formal diagnosis of ADHD, chronic migraine and episodic cluster headaches. These conditions are all pretty disabling, especially cluster headaches as the pain is utterly excruciating and I can barely move.

I have never claimed PIP. I have looked into it and don’t consider that I am eligible- mainly because although I am often unwell, I can perform the types of tasks listed on the PIP criteria (using the toilet, feeding myself, communicating, getting dressed etc). The exception to this is during a cluster headache when I can’t do anything. However, a key criteria of PIP as I understand it, is that your conditions need to affect you 50% of the time. The truth is I am not incapacitated by cluster headaches 50% of the time. They tend to last 1-1.5 hours, are most often between 11pm and 5am and although they are unbearable I do function inbetween them albeit feeling tired, scared and battered. If I get one in the day, I can’t do anything until it’s over- I have an injectable painkiller and portable oxygen and if I get them into me in time I can feel well enough to carry on within 40 minutes, but if not it may be 2 hours before I am ok.

My husband left me 18 months ago. It was sudden and unexpected. He left our house and moved into a house that we had previously rented to tenants. We are getting divorced.

As part of the divorce, I am understandably required to maximise my earnings and also claim any benefits that I’m entitled to- this is so I can show that I am doing all I can to support myself before looking to EXH for a financial settlement.

I am self employed and am working very hard despite my health conditions to earn a salary that is bit more than a minimum wage full time job. I manage this by having a job that is entirely flexible, so I can work around migraines and clusters. My job also doesn’t involve coming into contact with any migraine or cluster triggers. I’ve been given help from the HMRC Access To Work Scheme which provides some practical help with admin so I can avoid using a PC (migraine trigger), and other things that help me to work.

The divorce process has been brutal. EXH has taken every opportunity to be difficult and adversarial. I’m exhausted by it. He has a great deal of money, assets, earns a massive salary etc etc.. I am not asking for much at all IMO.

The whole process is horrible and complicated and we have been to court once, with another date set for December of we can’t agree.

He is insisting that I have not given an adequate explanation for not applying for PIP (I sent a copy of the criteria and said I did not meet them 50% of time). He’s raised a schedule of deficiency for the court saying that if I am too unwell to earn more money, then I should get PIP. My understanding of PIP is that it’s nothing to do with how much you can earn, and everything to do with whether you live independently. I’m baffled as to why his solicitor is pushing this point given she is an expert in family law and surely should know how PIP works?

I know many people incorrectly assume PIP is for people who can't work at all, or much due to their health. But my understanding is that's not the case.....

They will not listen to reason. I’m wondering if it would be easier to just apply for PIP- despite being sure I’m not eligible. But it just feels dishonest and unnecessary. I would absolutely be truthful if I claimed and so presumably I’d then get turned down and EXH will use this fact to claim that as PIP has rejected me I am not significantly affected by my health and should both get a different job earning more money, and also not be looking to him for a settlement that takes my health into account.

My solicitor isn’t much help, I have been trying to get advice from citizens advice for weeks but with no joy.

Can anyone offer any thoughts, advice or perspectives please- AIBU to consider applying despite not being eligible?

There's no issue with applying if you're not eligible, lots of people apply for benefits who are not awarded them.

Your point about your ExH's possible arguments re fitness for work is more of a concern, and should ideally be addressed by your solicitor or someone with a detailed knowledge in the field to advise you.

Having worked at CA in the past, they do not have the expertise to advise on the family/divorce law impacts of this, you need a specialist solicitor who will understand the impacts.

If you can manage self care ,independent travel etc most of the time it seems unlikely you would be eligible but nobody can really say ,it would be up to the decision makers to either award you or not
Anyone can make an application though.

I would go with the path of the least resistance and make an application. Don't try to guess what HIS next move is going to be. You'll deal with it when and if it comes to it.

Fill out the forms and obviously put the truth. You probably will get rejected but at least it will shut him up.
He sounds like an absolute nightmare.

They can't force you to apply. You already have an income and job. Press on and get what you are entitled to. Are these episodes triggered by stress by any chance? Fire that back at him, the greedy sod.

You sound awesome by the way.

If you feel you're not eligible, it's a waste of time. The form takes time, you've then usually got to have a face to face and then more waiting for the outcome.

He is aware it's not a 5 minute process, right?

I applied for my Ds it is a bloody hard form to fill in .. A long winded form . My Ds’s assessment was an hour and a half on the phone.

I would not be responding personally any more on the matter .. As you say if you are turned down it creates another problem .

You work FT just above minimum wage .. I don’t think it is anything you need to defend .

He is wasting money sending solicitors letters .. Be aware lots of solicitors send letters because their clients ask them to rather than because this is what they think should happen.

He may be intending to use the refusal as proof that you are not disabled.

Instead write to your MP complaining that people with disabilities such as yours are failed by the system. She/he/their assistant will almost certainly write back in a few days confirming that disability benefits are for people will daily personal care/mobility needs. You can then give this letter to his lawyer.

@WrylyAmused thank you. I juts thought that maybe if CA could advise me then that might help me explain my point. Unfortunately they don't believe anything my solicitor says. It's like the divorce is some sort of game and the rules are that solicitors don't take any notice of each other.

EXH has done all he can to argue that I don't have any health conditions. We disproved that via doctors letters and texts from our marriage which he had written clearly acknowledging I was unwell etc..

He's still arguing through that I'm not particularly affected by my health. It is unbelievable to me given that he watched me suffer for years, and one of the reasons that he left was he was fed up of me having headaches.

Just apply. If they say no you have your evidence. If they say yes then you get the financial support you’re entitled to. There is literally no downside to making an application so I can see why your ex thinks you’re being difficult for not doing so. There are services that can help you do it.

@5byfive

Thank you- I hadn't thought of that. Sorry to be slow on the uptake but I'm not quite sure what it is you're suggesting that I write to my MP about in order to get that type of answer?

As an aside, I do think the benefits system is problematic- but I need to sort this issue first!

I can manage my own self care 100% but I get enhanced rate for both components due to ASD and ADHD. I can’t leave the house alone and cannot communicate verbally so that may be why but I can fully do all self care but cannot prepare anything other than a cold meal of a sandwich

My concern is that he will use a refusal from PIP to claim that I am not affected by my health conditions. But I am severely affected- just not in the way that I'd need to be to be eligible for PIP.

So far he has taken every opportunity to try to claim I'm lying.

If you apply OP they will decide if you’re eligible you can get help if you need it to fill in the form

Your diagnosis or a drs letter or consultant letter will be just as much evidence if needed

@gabbyshouses I'm sorry that you are affected in that way.

I can communicate unless I have a cluster headache, when I'm well I can leave the house and drive.

I thought that being able to prepare a sarnie or cold meal would count as being able to feed myself.

I would not apply. You already have a job above minimum wage. He’s trying every angle to pay less than I suspect he’s otherwise required to. Don’t help him do this.

@gabbyshouses: " Your diagnosis or a drs letter or consultant letter will be just as much evidence if needed".

I have my diagnosis letters and consultants letters. However they tend to focus on the condition itself and understandably comment less on how it affects my life. Although TBF the cluster headache consultant did explain the likely affect on the time of work I can do.

Despite these letters EXH and his solicitor are still arguing that my health is less of an issue than I say it is.

You are right that PIP is not a test of your ability to work, but a test of how any medical conditions affect your ability to do certain everyday tasks that an adult would normally be able to do, or which affect your ability to get around. That said, people often underestimate how much their conditions impact these things because they’ve adapted their lives around them. Also, PIP is paid at various different rates and you might get a lower rate because it was considered, for example , that you needed some help with self- care in the daytime.

There was also a decision, I think, that said that the decision makers could not assume that if you had various impairments, they affected you at the same time of day or week. So if you had cluster headaches immobilising you 30% of the time, and something else affecting you 40% of the time, the decision maker couldn’t assume the 30% and the 40% were at the same time and you were only affected for 40% of the time. This decision may have been revised by now but I’m mentioning it to show how complicated the whole decision making process is.

EXH should not be allowed to argue that if you’re turned down for PIP, that implies you’re able to get a better job and earn more money. You’re clearly only working because of some significant adaptations. If your solicitor lets the other side get away with this argument …I don’t know what your remedy would be, but that’s not right.

I don’t think you can assume that a family law solicitor will know much about benefits. You might find some useful resources on the Benefits and Work website. If you’re really stuck, PM me and I can give you the name of a specialist solicitor who deals with social security/ welfare benefits and who does a flat fee review of your paperwork and then telephone discussion.

Wishing you luck with this - your EXH sounds horrible.

I just filled in exactly what I can and can’t do and at the assessment they asked so many questions which was so hard as I had to write the answers and have breaks but i explained I can’t even use the toaster , they were actually really kind to me. Most of my points were on things not related to self care.

This sounds extremely unkind of them I’m really sorry you are going through this. Do you have a support worker or can you get one someone to help you coordinate things to get your evidence all together ?

It sounds like he is creating an argument to reduce the financial settlement. You are saying you are severely affected by your illnesses. Your ex and his solicitor are disputing that because you don’t claim pip. What does your solicitor advise? Has your ex proposed any kind of settlement? Do you have shared children?

does he think you are going to claim spousal maintenance ? or is this to do with child maintenance ?

otherwise surely it's a 50/50 split of properties / pensions / other assets

Be aware that even if you did make a claim and it was successful the award will be time limited, possibly even as little as a year. So it is in no way at all a reliable source of income in the longer term. And I foresee the new government potentially making it means tested so more stress.

You can apply for PIP but chances are you won’t get it. Can you prepare a meal, clean yourself, go to the toilet etc? If you can do that amongst other things then you have no chance. It’s an in work benefit, you don’t need to be out of work to get it.
however, nothing to stop you trying.
if you are not happy with your solicitor- get another one that will support you better and hurry up about it. You need a no nonsense approach so find one that has that attitude. They are just trying it on with you but mud sticks so you need to fight back unfortunately. Solicitors do not listen to each other because if they did, they would make no money - it’s all about the fight for them and they love it it keeps the money flowing their way! It’s an appalling system that is filled with flaws, zero morals and a lot about who knows who when court eventually comes!