shocked my best friend voted Reform

[clearmoon]

Long standing close friend came round for dinner and we were nattering away, and she just mentioned off hand in the conversation that she had voted Reform. i am really shocked. We don't discuss politics much. But I would have guessed lib dems or labour. I love her dearly. But I do wonder if I should think about her differently now, or just carry on as before

YANBU - She is not such a good person as I thought all these years
YABU-its all fine

I think we need to be more accepting that not everyone thinks the same way and understanding different view points would make us a much nicer country. There are things that clearly worry her about the country. I have friends that vote for most parties, that's part of who they are. I liked them before I knew how they voted, politics is way too tribal.

They don't need to fall out, but wouldn't it change your respect for someone to know they had voted for a racist, bigoted party? You just have to look at the way Farage tried to use Southport to support his anti-Islam agenda to see the calibre of the party leaders, and it's not as if that behaviour comes as any sort of surprise.

I do have friends who vote conservative, never had an issue with that. I see reform as extreme I suppose. I dont see conservative as extreme.... of course if has some extreme people in it...

Or perhaps Harehills in Leeds? Caused by Chld Protection Services trying to protect children. But they were Roma children, so perhaps their community doesn't feel they should be subject to UK law.

The mob behaviour at Southport was disgusting, just as it was in Harehills. Was that also a racist mob?

If the opinion of other people is that member of other races are inferior purely by virtue of not being white Anglo-Saxon, why is that not wrong?

I wouldn’t give a monkeys if someone I knew voted Reform. They’re a mainstream political party and Farage is a moderate politician who 30 years ago would have been viewed as an entirely unremarkable centre-right tory. He’s not a “Nazi” or a “Fascist” and it’s only because the Overton window has gone bananas that he’s viewed as such.

Do I like Farage on a personal level? No I think he’s fairly odious. Are his MPs a bunch of misfits and loons? Many of them certainly seem to be.

But lots of people agree with him about mass immigration. They don’t like it. They feel their lives have been made materially worse by it. They feel unhappy and alienated. What are these people supposed to do? Just suck it up? Accept that they’re just “ignorant” and “bigotted” and that their betters know best? The longer you ignore these people and their concerns the angrier they’re going to get, and the less mainstream and respectable the parties they support are going to get.

If you support a racist party, how can you claim not to be racist?

Yes but your comment applies when you’re talking about politics within the normal range of decency.

It was a Mob, it wasn’t a racist mob as its actions were not driven by a dislike for a particular race. They should, and will, be prosecuted .. it’s not a “My Mob’s better than yours” debate

Can you explain which specific group has been targeted by Reform?
I know TR was spouting misinformation but I wasn’t aware Reform had.

I am not surprised that most attendees of Dulwich College in the 1980s probably had similar views to Farage. We forget that a lot of conversation then about immigration took place in the context of an active National Front, who believed in reparation of non white immigrants. It was an era where the “Tebbit Test” applied. People were more upfront in public life on their views. It would not have been exceptional. And honestly whatever people think about state public messaging you still have a lot of skepticism about multiculturalism and immigration. I think a lot of Conservatives accepted the economic case as cheap Labour who were not unionised. Culturally however they are scathing in private about any benefit from other countries. It is sensible to remember that one. It’s a big part of the appeal of Reform I believe.

There's something inherently dictatorial and dangerous about a system that allows oppression of minorities to the extent that we're suffering and even dying, though (as are many poorer and disabled people due to political policies). I can't see how that's morally acceptable: the majority don't care if you die, so it's ok, because that's democracy.

"Because as someone who immigrated to this country and became a British citizen..."

My DH is also an immigrant who is a British citizen. He has been a British citizen for around 25 years now.

He has also seen how the country has changed over the last 30 years. Frankly, he sees nothing wrong with reducing the recent very high levels of immigration.

The year my DH arrived in the UK there was actually more emigration than there was immigration - so there was net emigration rather than immigration.

"I will never support racist/xenophobic behaviour or people who seem to have way too many dodgy Russian ties."

Being rather racist/xenophobic yourself there aren't you?

How would it come across if you inserted another country there:

"too many dodgy [South Asian country] ties."

or perhaps:

"too many dodgy [north African country] ties."

Would you feel ok with somebody saying that?

@Waykt · Today 09:30
Hmmmm. Would you not be friends with someone who voted Conservative?

I would not be friend with someone who voted for a far left party or a far right party.

Basically anyone with nonsensical, extreme views.

Reform is not a real party anyway, it is just a vanity project for a rich, entitled businessman and an excuse to spew hate about immigrants and blame them for everything under the sun.

Somehow Farage has managed to convince a few gullible people that he is just a regular guy with their best intentions at heart. I have no time for people like that.

Illegal immigration is a genuine concern and that is perfectly fine to admit that but Reform are certainly not the people to address that.

Oh look another day and another thread full of the intolerant and abusive left.

Still not seen any evidence GB news or Reform are resist or so called far right, it would appear people of left wing persuasion are yet again to far intolernat and ignorant to actually come up with any facts it's far easier just to throw insults and accusations.

When you ask if they ever watched any thing like GB news they will claim never or once and it was racist but their is catch up so please link the racist parts for us to view and let us know who the presenters were and what they said that was wrong.

Now as i know MN illiberal left will now google search ofcom complaints in google but guess what i can do the same for every other politics chat shows.

Come off it. Everyone has their own criteria for who they can and cannot be friends with, it's self-evidently impossible to be friends with every category and type of people. It doesn't mean they're in an echo chamber. Some have a circle of friends who they met at college or university; some have friends who share a hobby or interest; some have friends who are predominantly other parents; etc etc. It doesn't mean they're in an echo chamber.

People are perfectly free to make a decision that they won't have people as friends who demonstrate objectionable opinions. Would you seriously spend precious free time with someone who is anti-semitic?

I would not be friend with someone who voted for a far left party or a far right party. Basically anyone with nonsensical, extreme views.

Somehow Farage has managed to convince a few gullible people that he is just a regular guy with their best intentions at heart. I have no time for people like that.

So im to take it you don't want anyone like yourself, who is openly intolerant of others and abusive with no substantial claim.

The “Angry Mob” needs someone to blame, rather than examining how thier own poor life choices have effected thier situation

Farage and Tice et al, appeal to this group as they say “none of this is your fault .. it the fault of “them”” and “them” could be anyone, Black People, Muslims, Disabled People, People on Benefits, the mythical Elite. They give easy answers “if it wasn’t for “them”, your life would be better”

So the “Mob” suck it up .. see it wasn’t because they skipped school, committed crime, took drugs etc that had caused thier situation…it’s because of “them”

You can’t rationalise with people like that, because it’s an irrational premise .. and they take no ownership over their own behaviours

Some very sad people on here. I really cannot believe someone's politics would change someone's view of someone. You have actively liked someone, so obviously their politics has nothing to do with how they are as a person. Not every reform voter is a racist, knuckle dragging loon. The same as not every Green voter is a vegan, tree hugging hypocrite.

I'm an atheist and have friends of many religions, it doesn't make me feel superior because I feel what I believe is right over them. As long, as no one pressures anyone into anything and we all like each other because we of our little quirks then it's all good. What is not acceptable is judging someone for their views, as long as they are amicable. This is why everyone is so aggressive because conversation is shut down and labels and judgement is thrown around.

I'd be shocked and would be rethinking the friendship - BUT how does she behave in RL? Presumably you've seen nothing in her behaviour that put you off and something that you like?

I'm not voting in your poll because if she has actually behaved as a good person for years she's unlikely to change that overnight. If she's always been someone you have a good time with but she's never done anything for others then she's never been a good person, you just havent realised that. Some of the most sanctimonious people I know actually do nothing for anyone but themselves or their family or do only a little and then publicise it massively.

I wouldn't want to be in a relationship with some who was racist or didn't believe in womens right to bodily autonomy, no. What's your point? Surely people have a right to set their own priorities and boundaries when it comes to dating? I wouldn't want to date someone whose views I find morally repugnant. DH and I are very different, we don't agree on everything but our values are aligned on the things that matter most to us. I don't think that's a bad thing.

A halo polishing team is out in force

"...but voting Reform is outside the box of normal decency."

I see a number of people here saying this, but nobody ever says why that is.

Some claim "Oh, they are racists!" But then when I go and read their manifesto, or see what the BBC has to say about their manifesto then I can find nothing racist there at all.

So, serious question, why exactly is voting Reform "outside the box of normal decency"?

It really isn't difficult to find evidence of racism. Just have a look at Farage's broadcasts about Southport. No need to google for that, unfortunately it has been all too easy to view it.

I'd feel the same way if someone voted Labour. Ghastly people.