AIBU to think that I shouldn't have bothered working and paying into National Insurance for the 35 years I have done so?

[HauntedBungalow]

When all I will get is the bare State Pension. Whereas other people who did not make these contributions and/or did not work will get Pension Credit plus all the other nice little add ons like Council Tax Support, free boilers and now Winter Fuel Allowance? AIBU to think I'm a mug for bothering to work all those years?

Christ this thread is depressing. What it does prove is that divide and rule politics is are alive and kicking. While we all bay for the apparent extermination of "the poor" - because that's a nice homogenous group to target with no risk of cancellation by doing so - governments and corporations asset strip the planet and pretend anyone can do it if they just pull themselves up by the bootstraps and work themselves to the bone fir "jam tomorrow".

Some of the comments on here...

Anyone can get a job. If their mind is working they can follow in Stephen Hawkings footsteps or become an author. Let's ignore the fact that becoming an author requires marketing and the hope that what you write will appeal to people so they'll actually buy it - there are no gurantees.

People can apparently just march into any employer and demand a job. Which ignores the fact that for most well paid jobs these days the first screening of CVs is done by AI so the days of dazzling with wit and sparkling personality are long gone unless you actually make it to interview.

Get any job? Apply for cleaning toilets and be rejected as a retention risk as your CV is too good. Over 40? Too expensive for a minimum wage job. Work two or three zero hours jobs? Be taxed even more than doing one full-time.

Frankly in my own situation quietly offing myself would appear to be the decent thing to do as I'm just a drain on society now apparently. One last suck on the state teat to do the necessary disposal and I'll no longer be part of the problem.

Hyperbole? Not really because there seem to be plenty on this thread who would cheer me on and be happy to assist. And I'm just one of thousands. And anyone can become another of my number by a couple of twists of fate.

Civilised society my arse.

@orangeleopard, forgive me, I absolutely meant where people have the choice then I would rather make the choice to work. What I really meant was that for those who are able to work and choose not to then there is no pride. I absolutely didn’t mean to cause offence; and of course I firmly believe that if I am not able to work then it is the job of society to help me out. Really sorry to cause offence.

Well said 👏

It seems that even pensioners now can't escape the "scrounger" narrative that gets trotted out on here all the time now.
Working age people wanting to jack in their jobs for a "better" life on benefits.... and now people wanting to stop work so they can have a better life on pension credit. They can't stand the less well off getting something for nothing.
Benefits and the "perks" are not rewards for sitting on your arse. The government is not rewarding people for not working, not trying to get a better job, being unwell/disabled etc.

It is fucking depressing. I will be one of those people on PC (if both it, and myself exist by then), but like, you maybe I should just off my self for the good of society and have everyone cheer me on.

Not all companies had work pensions to pay into.

When I left school you were expected to get a job and help contribute to your bed and board which nine times out of ten where I grew up meant working at the same place as a parent.

Our family home came as a tide house with my fathers job so they were fortunate but once I was older and wanting to get married/settle down there was absolutely no chance of getting a local authority house to rent either so it was private rent or mortgage, and for a lot of people that didn't earn big their priorities were keeping a roof over their heads and paying the bills that went with it which didn't necessarily leave much money left to contribute to such pensions.

I remember when private pensions were first wildly talked about and older people I worked with saying they couldn't afford, and shouldn't be forced to pay towards a private pension whilst having to pay into a government scheme one.

@MistressoftheDarkSide not one person has said that.

I think it’s widely acknowledged there is an unfairness to the current benefits system.

re labour - how predictable that they are targeting the middle.

I agree with means testing the WFA. The state pension is a higher amount than a 65 year old with a crumbling spine and arthritis who really needs the heating on would receive with standard UC plus LCWRA.

I'm in two minds about this I really am.

My SIL who I love dearly doesn't work and is a single mum to one child. She claims all benefits she's entitled too. She does not live a lifestyle of luxury at all but also doesn't live a life of poverty either.

My SILs lifestyle is shopping at Aldi/Asda for her weekly shop. Her clothes are from Asda George, Matalan, Sainsbury's, peacocks.

She goes on a UK holiday with her little one once a year to Butlins. She also goes on 2 or 3 UK weekends away without little one with friends/boyfriend.

She doesn't drive so gets buses.

She has a simple two bed house with a garden which is nice and furnished with stuff from marketplace/b&m/home bargains.

She gets her makeup from superdrug.

Her little one goes to nursery a couple days a week with funded hours.

As you can see it's not a life of luxury with new cars, forgein holidays etc. but it's not poverty.

My colleague is also a single mum of one and world full-time.

She also lives in a small two bed house (mortgaged) also furnished by marketplace/bnm.
She drives but had a 20 year old car.
She also goes to Butlins for her holiday with her kid and parents. She also goes on 2/3 weekends away in the UK a year.
Her clothes are also supermarket type brands.
Her child is in full-time nursery.

Their financial lifestyle are very similar. But one works full-time and runs herself ragged with pick ups/drop offs and little time with her dc and stress organising childcare when kids ill etc.

Now I guess you could say when nursery years are over colleague will be better off. However SIL will probably get a part time job then so will also be better off. So again, no real difference. SIL had the years to look after her own dc and not worry about childcare or running herself ragged whereas colleague did. So emotionally/mentally likely better off. Then can go back to work a few days a week and still have the DC in school the other days whilst she catches up on house stuff and have alone time.

You could say colleague will have her house paid off some day. But again will likely go on care home fees. Like most people her house isn't worth enough to sell at 67 and live off the proceeds or anything. She also has to pay for everything in anything goes wrong her entire adult life. SIL doesn't have to worry about house maintenance and the state will pay care home fees.

So still not better off really.

I guess that's the issue really. Lower working class people live a lifestyle very similar to those who don't work regardless of their reasons for not working.

But what's the alternative? Make people and any children they have live in squalor?

There isn't really an alternative.

But with a mortgage you get to pay it off then have the years between this and death ( or incapacity) to live rent free…..I live in an area where it’s the norm to get a mortgage in your early 20s ( NW ) so most people are mortgage free by mid 40s ….even if you only live to state pension age , that’s 20 years without any rent

The other thing about pensions and life insurance is that they are subject to the whims of the stock market which is essentially gambling by another name. Hence people who have done the "right and sensible" thing being shafted down the line when companies go bust.

The alternative to state support of any kind does take us back to the Victorian era. Do people really want to go back to punishment of the poor especially in a time when it is not that easy to start from nothing and be entrepreneurial?

I have been self-employed for 7 years. I had a bricks and mortar shop. We had a small amount of capital to start with, and a potentially lucrative model, but a succession of things such as family health crises like MIL with dementia, who lived with us for 18 months, then my Mum being diagnosed with terminal cancer then the pandemic (we were non-essential, as was my DPs full time job) then him dying unexpectedly then the COL crisis, then being evicted so my landlord could sell, then my parents in their 80s having various health crises and separating all happening in a couple of years especially since DP died have absolutely shattered me. At 55 starting all over again with any kind of enthusiasm is laughable.

I'm not asking for sympathy or handouts but it seems I would be begrudged the roof over my head and the pretty bleak financial future I'm facing by many on here and they'd rather see me and the many others like me living on the streets as just desserts.

And what would that look like? Street homelessness is on the rise, people moan and complain that it makes their towns look bad, but forget that a proportion of those on the streets asked for help and it was denied by the government. Mopping up the mess costs more than the help in terms of addiction mental health issues, the rise in crime etc.

If someone can't pay rent of £1000 a month in what world does it make financial sense to evict them and then pay £1000 a week to a B&B provider that's if a place is available. Children are prioritised but shove parents and 3 kids in one room with a microwave away from their support networks and then wonder why their education suffers, Mum is on anti-depressants and Dad goes AWOL or starts punching doors or worse.

If you get served a Section 21 and don't wait for bailiffs there is no council support because you are making yourself intentionally homeless.

So many pontificating on here about the unfairness of it all and laying the blame at the door of those stymied by circumstances and bureaucracy should count themselves lucky that they are not ",those people" and look at the real issues which are absolutely engineered to keep very rich people very rich.

On reading the OP’s headline, I voted YANBU, but that was because I was thinking the same thing about my now 18-month wait to see an NHS specialist…

It's implied. It's implied on every thread about the "feckless poor". It's a zeitgeist at the moment. The question of assisted dying is a contentious issue with merits for those who can choose it. But mission creep in other countries has offered it to people who yes, were sick and disabled but we're asking for practical help with continuing to live. There is an increasing rhetoric around those perceived to be a burden on the state that is frankly chilling.

I'd like to know found out that the OP can get a free boiler being over 60. I'm over 60 and need a new boiler, but face having to pay ££££ for it.

@Kitkat1523 yes that's true but SIL will get housing benefit so basically the same thing?

It also is area dependent too I guess. If your mortgage is £400 a month on a 2 bed terrace you'll be £400 a month better off for a few years although you do have to pay for all your house repairs/boilers etc. whilst someone on housing benefit doesn't pay for that.
But if you have a 4 bed detached then you'll be £1500 a month better off which is huge and much better than any housing benefit.

But that's what I mean when I say it's the lower working class full time workers that aren't really any better off than those on benefits. There really isn't much difference in lifestyle.

Best case scenario is maybe they'll maybe be £150-200 a month better off so £30-50 a week once mortgage is paid after any housing maintenance expenses.

That's not much really for a lifetime missing out on time with your little DC and slogging away 40hours week with little luxury.

Like I said I don't see an alternative. I don't think my SIL and her child should be living squalor or poverty of any kind. But I don't think my colleague and others like her should have a similar lifestyle either. There should be quite an obvious and vast difference of some kind as a pay off

📣engineered to keep very rich people very rich
@MistressoftheDarkSide
What you said there, on repeat through a megaphone!

I have a mortgage. (It will definitely not be paid off by mid 40s though. More like 60. I'm in London. Did not get a mortgage until late 30s).
My friend lives in a council house.
Mine is a 2 bed flat. Hers a 3 bed house.
When I've paid the mortgage off I may have about 3 years of saving that money before I retire.
But in the long run. Should we both run out of money, her rent will get paid in housing benefit or pension credit.
I will need to sell my house. Once I have spent the money from that, I will then get housed and get housing benefit and pension credit same as her.
The point being, unless you have a LOT of private pension/ big savings, you're actually not that much better off in the long run.
Also if we both need care, she'll get it paid for from day one, I will need to sell my house and once that money is gone it'll be paid for. So we'll likely both end up in the same place.
Despite the fact she's only worked part time for the past 20 years and I've worked full time and bought a flat.

And @MistressoftheDarkSide I agree with you on assisted dying, whilst there is a need for it, it is also the slipperyist of slippery slopes☹️

Why would she? If everyone on here got their way there would be zero difference between the standard of living working or not working. They want the unemployed to have what the working have, for free. And the working to ‘just be pleased they may get to choose the care home they die in’ after spending the best years of their life slogging away.

This 100%.

But if you’re not even paying rent yourself because you get it in benefits; what’s the difference?

Like with most things in this country, life revolves around scummy, lazy people and making sure that they are kept happy and given everything on a plate

Yes because otherwise they’ll burgle people’s houses, shoplift and neglect their own children. It’s like emotional blackmail on a mass scale isn’t it?

Sorry but you don’t get to shut down the chat with the suicide hyperbole. It comes up on every thread like this ‘I’ll just off myself then shall I?’ but no, we will discuss regardless.

Yep so true @Rainbowsponge

What I don't understand is how do people actually get to do that in the first place? People who work would never qualify for any benefits even if they left their job, there is no social housing available.

Scumbags get given it all!

You made your choice, they made theirs.

Are you saying those that live in social housing are scumbags?