AIBU to think that I shouldn't have bothered working and paying into National Insurance for the 35 years I have done so?

[HauntedBungalow]

When all I will get is the bare State Pension. Whereas other people who did not make these contributions and/or did not work will get Pension Credit plus all the other nice little add ons like Council Tax Support, free boilers and now Winter Fuel Allowance? AIBU to think I'm a mug for bothering to work all those years?

Jeez! What you're suggesting would privilege the wealthy even more so than they are currently, and society would be much more unequal. How would you feel if you needed a medical treatment but were told you're not getting it because you hadn't contributed enough, even though you'd worked all your days? Or that only one of your children will get an education because you haven't contributed enough for the second child?

Most of us are not net contributers, that is, we get more out of society than we pay in - our taxes help to build a functioning society, they provide education and health care, they provide local and national infrastructure and civic amenities, they subsidise low paid (often key) workers; our taxes don't simply pay for "benefits", and you most likely "benefit" more than you contribute.

Your suggestion would take us back to Victorian times... high infant mortality, death by poverty.

🙄

A bit financially maybe but those who worked part time or not at all had a better work life balance, saw the kuds more, got benefits to top everything up. Those that worked full time & worked hard scrimping and saving and putting into a pension to make sensible choices ate now suffering a second time over.

Yeah exactly, it is weird you get more for not having your full stamps than someone on state pension. It'll be different going forward where employer contributions to pensions were made mandatory, but a lot of people retired now worked for decades before this was a thing and so plenty got a paltry lump sum or paltry monthly payments if anything and just the state pension.

It's insurance though rather than a pension pot.
You've been lucky to be healthy enough to work throughout your life. Had you become seriously ill or disabled you would have received benefits to support you through that. If you had children you would have been supported through that - SMP & child benefit.
It's like any insurance house or car you pay into it so it covers you if something awful happens. You don't get a payout just because you've got 35 years no claims on your car insurance!

loads of people work for public services with good pensions……and we don’t all live in London you know…..i never had even a quarter of a million £ house

We are not well off and watch the pennies but the attitude of some people here is very depressing. Absolutely obsessed with the people scamming the system, and let's be honest there will be people like this whatever the system under whatever the government. Stop lumping these idle poor in with those that need our compassion.

Paying NI and tax to support those in need is the RIGHT thing to do. Those widowed with a young family, those disabled, those caring, those made redundant and can't get a job due to ageism, those fleeing war, those with long term health conditions. It's a massive list and YOU could be one of them in an instant.

Would you swap places with them voluntarily if you got all these perceived benefits? I wouldn't.

Then your council is unusual the criteria for a lot of council scemes are having an income under £30k, if your boiler is over fourteen years old. It's £20k and a boiler older than seven in our area. The benefit rule meant that a lot of single home owners were missing out, so the scheme was extended. I'm surprised with the green initiatives you couldn't be accommodated within one of the schemes.

Fair point - your situation sounds very tough, from what I understand there’s not much benefits given to people with mortgages even if they are out of work. I hope you find work soon.

That does seem unfair about the savings. I think they need to make the threshold for that much higher so ordinary people with a decent amount of savings don’t get penalised.

It seems unfair that if you can't claim UC you're excluded from so many other things. It seems if you're on UC you get lots of extra help thrown in for free and if you have any savings you're excluded from everything. It's so black and white. Also it feels unfair to be excluded from everything when you paid in so long as the OP said. I've been working since 15 and have never been out of work previously - now in my late 30s.

Yeah I think this is it. It’s very unfair clearly even for some people with kids . As I’ve said upthread I think some people do very well out the benefit system on a long term basis, while some people who need some temporary help get screwed and barely get anything and are in dire straits. Definitely not everyone is living the life of riley on benefits. Something is wrong when someone like you who has been working their whole lives can’t get any help when they most need it.

I hope you’re getting some support from your ex partner? Another thing that irks me is how they let people - usually men- get away with not financially supporting their children.

My JSA applicaction was denied back in 2016 so I wasn’t aware of UC then - not sure if it was around - but I did claim housing benefit (successfully) which was £200 a month, my rent which was bills inclusive was £350 pcm. And I obviously had to pay food and my phone bill too. So it was still a struggle without JSA. I don’t know if the decision was made in error, but I was so exhausted between fighting the job centre which was a long walk away, calling the benefits helpline and being on hold for ages, and looking for work that I just gave up challenging the JSA decision. I kept hoping I’d finally get some hours from my multiple zero hour contracts jobs. I didn’t! The letter just said I wasn’t eligible for JSA 🤷‍♀️and this was after me walking to the jobcentre to sign on weekly for 6 weeks. It was a complete waste of my time and energy.

But that's the problem. He isn't claiming "state pension". He's claiming pension credits. It's for anyone pension aged who isn't able to claim state pension. And like you say, he isn't able to claim a state pension as he hasn't paid in. So he claims pension credit instead. Which not only tops up any income to state pension amount, it gives extra benefits on top.
And even if he was claiming a full pension, it's all well and good saying you shouldn't be able to unless you've paid in, but what is the alternative? Having people starve?
What do you think people who arrived in this country (legally) from the EU at say age 55 did when they hit retirement age? They hadn't paid enough to get a state pension. So they would have got pension credit.
This is why people are annoyed. The government will tell you to ensure you get enough NI contributions to claim your full state pension. But what they never mention is, if you don't make it, you'll just be able to claim pension credits to top you up to the same amount.

Exactly so it's low income/benefits. You implied the only criteria was age.

Me too!

I’m 54 and have full contributions! Still contributing though!

Unfortunately OP if you hadn't bothered working and had gone on benefits while the children were young they would have given you NI credits for that time. They'd also have made you look for work once the children were in secondary school, now it's when they're 3. Getting paid to sit on your arse isn't as lucrative as people pretend to think it is.

I'm sorry that you're going to have too much income to get your pension topped up to a lower amount, having slightly more money than other people sounds really awful.

Scenario 1. No or little work, rely on the state. Do you really think this will be a fun retirement? On basic state pension you won’t be able to afford holidays or a car. If you need care or a care home you will get the very least care your local authority can get away with or living in a pretty grotty care home.

Scenario 2. Work, pay pension contributions (best of all have a public sector pension) Yes, you will pay tax, the same as we all do on our income but life will continue much as before.
DH and I have full state pensions, he has a modest public sector pension and I have a private pension that I contributed what I could afford for 40 years. We have a lovely life and it was all worthwhile.

That's not unfairness in the system. That's thievery. And have you reported it? No? Then you're complicit.

Be really, really careful here. I honestly thought by NI was paid up to the max years before I retired at 60 (couldn't do my job any more, then Covid, then ill). I have worked all my life and paid NI apart from when I was a student. When I checked my contributions at 66 I was a few years missing cos NI now goes to the new retirement age for me, 66. I get less state pension a week than my friend who retired at 60, a few years before me.

But why don't they scrap paying x years of stamps to be eligible and just say anyone over the age of x gets a state pension? It is strange that if you don't qualify for state pension you can potentially have more via pension credits than someone who does have their full stamps. I don't read most people saying people on pension credits should get less than they do, but more that it should be at least equal?

That's not really what people are complaining about though. They're not comparing private/ work based pensions and state pensions.
In your scenario it would be,

Work hard in low paid job and either not being able to afford to pay in or as was the case years ago not being offered a work based pension. So you only get state pension when you retire. But that's all you get. No help with boilers or heating bills or eye tests or dentists appts or council tax.

Then scenario 2. Rely on benefits most of life. Or work cash in hand so not paying any tax or NI. Don't qualify for state pension. So get pension credit instead and because of that also qualify for loads of free stuff like heating bill payments etc. And end up better off than the person who worked minimum wage their whole life.

Why do so many people rely on just the state pension us beyond belief.
My husband has 3 private pensions (RAF which he claims now in his 50s) and myself 2.
You need to make your own provisions in life

Because until 2008 employers didn't have to enrol staff onto a private pension scheme (and many didn't), for some retirees thats a substantial portion of their working life not covered. The cost of living also wasnt as high, state pension used to be enough to comfortably enough live on. For people really struggling as well they may have opted out of making contributions to have the cash to hand in the short term; this disproportionately affected low income workers typically and a lot of women.

Why do so many people rely on the state... full stop

Maybe as the people who didn't get paid well and were living payday to payday couldn't afford to save extra? Not everyone has a decent paying job with a good pension you know. If you were earning £11.50 and
hour then I doubt there would be a huge amount spare. And if everyone got the " higher paying" jobs then no one will be working as healthcare assistant, supermarket workers and delivery drivers for example And we need these people far more than those Sat in an office making money for their corporation

It’s tricky. I can understand the need for a safety net. I think it’s the fact that pension credit appears to be a gateway to other ‘free’ benefits that’s the issue. The winter fuel payment has highlighted this.

it reminds me of when my kids were at school and Blair was in government. There was a payment (can’t remember what it was called), to 16 plus teens in education who had parents on a low income. It divided the kids at school into those who got ‘free money’ and those who had to do Saturday jobs and work evenings. It was a bone of contention for the kids who didn’t get it.

I had thought about paying voluntary contributions to top up my state pension but won't bother now as it doesn't seem worth it. I intend to take my small workplace pension at 62 and burn through it in six years.

I agree with you in theory, Houseplanter, we pay contributions so that we get a decent contribution from the state on retirement and it is a good amount. However, it is not enough to actually live on, pay bills, repairs, etc. it is meant to give support but not keep us solely, which is why other benefits are available.

There are those who never made enough money to be able to put much by. I'm sure most people tried.

In the past a lot of women only worked part time when they were bringing up children, some not at all (my mother didn't), and depended on their husbands. If husbands didn't have a very good job they faced a frugal old age.

I am fortunate that I have a small pension from my work and have inherited my husband's pension which, combined with state pension, means I am OK. I will never be wealthy, we certainly didn't save much, but I am content - and thankful. However that doesn't mean I'm complacent and I do feel sympathy for others who live from hand to mouth, it could have been me. I certainly wasn't always wise with money and rather lived for the moment. We were very hard up for quite a long period when younger, it was awful but we learned from it.

We cannot judge somebody else when it comes to finances.

Sorry but this is degrading people who can’t work. I’m physically disabled and I’m in debilitating pain each day that I’m unable to work. I would love to work, I miss working so much - but unfortunately I’m physically unable to. That’s not my fault. I’m very grateful I’m able to get benefits to afford me to live. But that doesn’t mean I don’t have pride. This comment is truly vile.