Grandparents

[2ndmum2be]

Hi,

Looking for some unbiased advise as this has gone on so long.

We rent a house from my mum and dad. It was offered to us at a discounted rate of £850 6 years ago. The plan was they would make improvements it needed and eventually I'd would be signed over to my brother and myself.

They've done no improvements. Kitchen js the same one from 1980. It is a beautiful 4 bed house with alot of potential but unfortunately after paying the rent and large council tax for the area ect we have been living month to month.

A year after we moved in we had a baby and about a few months once I got back to work and after covid the rent was raised to £950.

We've always paid of course and not complained.. dispite broken promises ect it's fine we have made what we can of it.

But now I am mat leave with our 2nd. Finance are really rough this time round and I asked them for some help and the simply said no. No chance, will see what we can do but definitely not adjusting the rent. I even asked if we could have a small discount of what we are short by temporarily and when I'm back working we can pay it back.

Also for extra context, they are completely mortgage free and we were told the money we are paying is to help my dad's pension as he is self employed. But he has quit his job now, not found something else in a year but not claiming pension as he hopes to do something else. He told me to my face out rent money is now his pocket money to go drinking twice a week and he's currently in spain in an apartment they also own with my brother.

I don't mean to sound spoilt and entitled but it just hurts, even with thier grandbabies they just don't seem to care if we can't even afford to eat.

What are your thoughts? I've had some people say to stop paying 😅😂 but my mum isn't the most maternal and for you to say well she won't kick you and her grandchildren out...hmm I think she would. Same mother that when I was pregnant with our first...even after convincing us to move in here calling it a family home when I told her the nurse she advised we sign on for a council house 🙄🙈

We are stuck! The rent is cheap for the size and we couldn't find that anywhere else at the moment but it's also too high to be able to save for anything 🥺

Advice ?

Thank you

So if I've got this right, your parents bought a house for their kids to live in and you pay essentially the reduced mortgage with no interest? Because its not rent if they are going to sign it over to you both in the end! And originally the plan was for them to pay to renovate it for you aswell but they have since worked out they don't want to pay out for you to have a cheap house fully renovated as well on their dime ? Oh and appliances have broken which you begrudgingly replaced ( because your using said appliances) I'm not sure why you feeling hard done by here ?

6 time a year is a huge amount more than no help at all - which is the main point that I was making. OP started her post with "no help with childcare" and then went on to describe that she did get help". It makes me think that her mindset typically understates the help her parents gives her. She could have refused the "deal" on the house 6 years ago, but she didn't. She could have chosen to move out when it became clear that her parents weren't renovating the house but she didn't. She chose to have 2 children knowing what her living situation was and now wants her parents to lower the rent - an option that wouldn't be available anywhere else.

If the rent money was to boost a self employed pension, I'm not convinced that OP's parents are rolling in it- which might be why they haven't been able to pay for the intended renovations.

@2ndmum2be You say in your OP that they are letting the house to you at a subsidised rent. If the rent is cheaper than what it would cost you to rent somewhere else even without improvements etc then it sounds like you just can't afford to live in a four bedroom house. How much would it have cost you to rent a two bedroom flat (which is currently big enough for your needs) this whole time? Because if you could get that for cheaper then your parents have been renting to you below market rate and you have been living beyond your means and clearly neither of you are happy.

If you think that you moving out would annoy your parents because they would need to spend money on the place to rent it to someone else then maybe you should just call their bluff. Say you're moving out to a two bedroom flat because you can't afford to live in a four bedroom house and it's unfortunate but it is what it is.

@redskydarknight since we're discussing finances I assumed 'helping out with childcare' in this context referred to helping lower the cost of nursery fees, which these days is around £70-£80 a day. PP asked OP if her parents help with childcare; if that amounts to 6 times a year then no, they're not helping to lower the cost of nursery fees.

I agree with you that it shouldn't be assumed that grandparents provide childcare, especially as an alternative to nursery. But OP didn't raise this in isolation, a PP asked her and she answered.

Clearly the parents are treating this rental agreement as a business transaction*, so my advice to OP is to move out if it's unaffordable.

*A business transaction that wouldn't be an option on the open market due to the condition of the house, which the parents have not done anything about despite making promises they would. Interesting how critical you are being of OP, but haven't addressed this?

Move out asap. With no drama or falling out. Just do it quietly and with no rows.

Move to a property that is fully functional.

Your parents / in laws can then spend money fixing up their house to rent it out again.

We live in the arse end of nowhere and a 4 bedroom detached house around here easily rents for £1600 pcm (and you can bet those landlords are not making any promised improvements either!).

I think you’ve got a good deal and I wouldn’t look a gift horse in the mouth. By all means do look for alternative housing, but my guess is you won’t find any that you can afford that is comparable.

@2ndmum2be I would be tempted to take the appliances you've paid for with you, assuming the ones provided by your parents were in a state of disrepair.

Dear Lord, OP, your parents are renting you a cheap house and you're still complaining? Not to mention that you chose to have another child, even though you were struggling financially?
It is not your parents job to fund the grandchildren you chose to have.
Stop relying on your parents, grow up and join the real world because you are being spectacularly unreasonable.

Your bills sound extremely high. The money you’ve spent on doing it up could have been saved for something else. The second baby seems an optimistic decision given how precarious you feel your circumstances are. It’s possible they hear you complaining and asking for even more help when they’re already renting at way below market value and they see you have added considerably to your costs.

How much help are they giving your brother?

I actually think you have quite a cheek. You had 6 years to change your financial situation. You didn't do anything. Then you have a second child and complain of financial issues. Surely you knew that a second child would have placed greater strain? Sounds like it's you and your dh taking the huge P. And then you expect childcare on top. Your cheek is displayed by pointing out your DF is unemployed and spends his money doing what he wants. How does that have anything to do with you. Maybe if you feel unjust then you can easily go find another 4 bed place for a lower rent. Maybe your parents feel that in 6 years you haven't made any steps forward In your own life and they are providing a home for your whole family?

Could you buy? Your mortgage on, say, a 3 bed semi, would be less than your rent in many areas.

Exactly, having child after child and complaining!

Can your DH's parents (if they're still alive) help out at all?

Move. Your parents shouldn’t be your landlords, the whole arrangement sounds messy, they think they’re doing you a favour but really you’re doing them a favour by paying them to live in a house that isn’t fit for anyone else to live in.

I think you need to move out and find somewhere that you can afford, with a landlord who looks after their property.

If you are right that they need to do the property up to rent it out, then that is for them to do. I would treat this as a business agreement all round and if you don’t have a contract saying otherwise, the appliances you bought for the property are yours to keep.

If they don't want to I'd accept that and move forward. It is a decent rent and you hoped to keep it for good so far. Good luck.

I would hazard a guess that they offer you "cheap rent" because they know it would cost a lot to get it up to legal-renting standard and they don't pay tax on the rental income.

If they had to pay to get everything up to standard and then were taxed on the higher rent, they'd probably end up with less than they're getting now.

That said, you've got yourself into a foolish situation having more kids when you were already living hand to mouth.

Moving out to a smaller rental is the best plan for all. It will force your parents into becoming responsible landlords (& paying tax on their income 🙄) and you can live in accommodation you can afford.

But surely all these GP who have done their time and duty raising their kids and providing a home, shouldn't be expected to now provide for their grown adult children and more Gc too?

your post is titled 'grandparents'... which led me to believe this was about just that.. but its actually about Money.

where i live, £950 a month is pretty good for a 4 bed detached house, with or without renovations? you're looking at that for a standard 3 bed town house with parking and a small garden.

You sound dreadfully entitled! they are helping you out by letting this property to you at a lower than market rate.. it sounds like you are living above your means and even though your parents have money doesnt mean they are obliged in sharing it with you.

Find a place, smaller, more affordable for yourselves and move out. It won't be a 4 bedroomed house and it might not be in the best of area's but you and your partner need to start taking care of your own family instead of moaning that your parents aren't taking care of you!

Random question but what kind of windows, & were they painted shut?

If 80's home prob. not painted shut.

why should they? i see this time and time again on MN where the parents are expected to provide for their grown up children! They are grown ups, making grown up decisions, no wonder society is becoming what it is because of this.

the OP and her partner are adults.. start acting like them and provide for your own family instead of expecting handouts.

If your bills are over 1k a month there must be a lot of savings to make there. I'm in an old detached 4 bed and my utilities and council tax don't come to that (even with an electric car to charge). Spend the day on money saving expert figuring out what you can switch.

I feel like we're one step away from the next part of this discussion. "But it it much harder for young families today! They should and need to help!" "Why wouldn't you want to help your children?" "Remember this when they need help when they're old!"

He told me to my face out rent money is now his pocket money to go drinking twice a week

Did he use those actual words though?

If so, it sounds as though there's a bit of a backstory that we're not getting.

Are they annoyed you had another child when you can't afford to?

They don't have to provide appliances but your windows sound illegal as I wonder if you could get out in the event of a fire.
Also, are there regulations regarding insulation? I doubt it, but still...

And you would be amazed at who'd snap that house up in a heartbeat as it's a landlord's market right now

But your parents don't sound very caring. Are you sure that house will come to you?