Olympic gymnastics humiliates and infantilises grown adult women

[Thebellofstclements]

The ridiculous leotards, the twee hairstyles. Having to do the ridiculous flicky "dance" moves (artistic expression, ha!) and grinning inanely (insanely) in between moves and when presenting...
Arguably the best athletes in the world but these grown adult women have to present themselves in a ridiculous, almost grotesquely infantile manner, looking fairy cheap and tacky.
The men do not.
My family argues that the gymnasts choose to do this.
We know that historically female gymnasts have been abused with no voice, so I'm not convinced this is all what they would necessarily choose given the option. AIBU?

Because the men's dress requirements are different - for reasons that have been discussed upthread.

Swimming and diving are relevant comparisons and I don't see much difference between the cuts there and the women's leos.

The other thing worth acknowledging is that bare legs might feel optimal for performance, less restrained, more cool. So while I am very supportive of unitards being available, we should be surprised if they aren't always the choice for top gymnasts.

I don't know where you're seeing this.

Insufficient vulva coverage would breach FIG rules. They are quite relaxed about many aspects of the leotard but do have this safeguard.

You can speculate about what women have chosen, but it is entirely possible that they make choices we would not make. The evidence we have is that many gymnasts have had input into design and are delighted with the results.

Maybe men need more coverage in their nether regions to make their cock and balls comfortable?

@TheKeatingFive It's the back of the pants for me. The ones men are wearing for diving should be very good and comfortable for women too. T

I missed the bit upthread where they justified the exposed bum cheeks for better performance.
If you switch on something like beach volleyball, where almost always you watch the players from the back it can get too much and just not necessary.

Not necessary when watching?
Ah, I see. It’s your own comfort you are worried about rather than the competitors. Fairly famously, beach volleyball players complained about their kit and got the rules changed so they could wear longer/more covering uniforms if they want to. If they still aren’t, it’s definitely their choice.

Well why don't you go through the thread and find it instread of just being disparaging?

Try reading my posts?

In addition, you don’t seem to know that men’s gymnastics were included in the Olympics decades before the women’s. Like I said, men got there first.

I don’t dispute that the actual moves/equipment for women are designed around the female body. Of course they are. But there are other elements of sexism that you are glossing over.

Is the female body somehow more biologically suitable for performing to music?! Obviously not. The women have music because of deeply ingrained ideas about how women are perceived when they’re competing; sheer strength and skill aren’t enough- there has to be a more decorative/performance element too. This also accounts for the traditional emphasis on revealing and decorative costumes.

Look, my only contention on this thread, right from my very first contribution, was that there is sexism in gymnastics - partly because there’s sexism everywhere! It shows in many Olympic sports - we’re all familiar with the fight female beach volleyballers had over their kit. It shows in different ways in different sports - and hardly at all in some.

Just because you know loads about the ins and outs of gymnastics doesn’t mean it’s magically immune to sexism.

If you're balancing on a beam in sitting position and rebounding off bars at hip level, you may well have a relevant preference for leotard cut.

Or you may like the aesthetic. Nobody is mooning the camera or exposing genitals or falling out of leotards. There's a lot of exaggeration on this thread where gymnastics is concerned - can't speak to other sports.

The rugby players in the image posted have shorts which cover their buttocks, why can't gymnasts be afforded the same - and other female athletes, it's not just about gymnastics, it's about a pervasive culture which sexualises women, which some female athletes themselves - Sarah Voss, for example - have spoken out about. Have a look at the article below and tell me this isn't "sexualisation".

Nike track and field uniform

I don't have a problem with the sequins and the glitter; I think the "flicky wrists" after doing a difficult summersault on a 4inch beam can look a bit contrived, and silly (though it was interesting that a PP, a gymnast herself, pointed out that this gives the athlete time to pause and recover her strength).

Much has been made of the athletes freedom to choose their outfits; that may be so, but we shouldn't forget that the pressure to confirm can be real.

Isn't that rather sad, though? That we are still considering the sight of a bit of flesh showing when it's a woman as 'sexualising'? That we are perpetuating the notion that women's bodies are the problem, not those who fetishise them?
I can't help feeling slightly uncomfortable with the idea that I should be embarrassed/ashamed of my body and cover it up because of somebody else's inability to just see it as a body.
At the end of the day, yes, women should always have a choice. But frankly if you are embarrassed by women's bodies on display, and consider it 'sexualisation', aren't you part of the problem?
The flip side to this whole argument isn't only that men can cover up, it's that they don't have to. We didn't look at Tom Daley when he was 14 and gasp at the horror of a young boy wearing teeny tiny Speedos, did we? Yes they covered his bum cheeks but not a heck of a lot else.
Your cousin wearing tiny pants to run in, is she forced to? Is that competition rules? If not, then the only person 'sexualising' her is the onlooker. If she was uncomfortable wearing them, she would just not wear them. If she's fine with it, why shouldn't you be?
Women are uncomfortable wearing skimpy outfits because of how other people perceive their bodies. It's something we've all had to live with. That how others view our bodies is our responsibility. That our bodies are shameful things that should be hidden. And we, as women, are continuing to buy into this idea and passing it on to our daughters, our nieces.

Clothing doesn't sexualise people. People do. And whilst it is, of course, inherently wrong for women to be forced to wear skimpy outfits solely for the purpose of giving men something to ogle at, it is also wrong for women to be made to feel that this equates to 'skimpy outfits = sex, therefore I must cover up'.
As women we need to feel we can 'own' our bodies. That includes not having to feel so embarrassed about our anatomy that we must hide it in shame as much as it includes not being forced to wear something purely for the male gaze.

@cardibach
Not necessary for their playing, nor their comfort.
So I guess the question is why women keep choosing such scant outfits, when men wouldn't?
Do you think it's a coincidence that many men would prefer to see the half-missing pants on women than the same women playing in shorts?
Why are so many women equating the tiniest outfit with the most liberal choice and emancipation?

The thing is, you keep telling us all there is sexism in gymnastics and nobody has denied it.

It's really not clear that that should make it open season on women's clothing choices or women's skills. We are where we are. The male gaze has formed our culture. So what do you want gymnasts to do about it?

Should gymnasts wear unitards to avoid death threats? Should they make those unitards plain black to avoid the accusation that flesh tones "look" revealing. Should they impose school uniform style rules about hair and accessories? Should they adapt their leotard cut to whatever UK women think is acceptable, while of course ignoring Indonesian extremists because the UK in 2024 has the right to set a universal standard?

Or should they get on with wearing what they are wearing and pushing further for the bodily autonomy that is women's main safeguard? Should they embrace the celebrity and commercial opportunities a few of them have earned?

The fact that sexism is ubiquitous is no reason to disrespect these women's (many, different) choices or sneer at their (quite varied) aesthetic.

I thought of this thread just now when reading that boxers with Y chromosomes will be allowed to compete in the women's Olympic event. Fucking disgrace.

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/article/2024/jul/29/boxers-who-failed-gender-tests-at-world-championships-cleared-to-compete-at-olympics

One of the great advantages of having a sport designed around the female body, where women are doing something quite different to the men instead of the same thing but slower/not as far is that it's much less vulnerable to colonisation from mediocre males. Simone might have to do 'flicky dance moves' on the floor exercise, much to the disgust of our dopey OP, but she won't have to compete against a male like poor Angela Carini. It should not have come to this, of course. But male entitlement is such that it has.

This was not about gymnastics. It was picked up and dealt with fast. Women had a wide choice of outfits and the models used for the most controversial version showed a narrower cut than was used.

It is worth ensuring that women aren't uncomfortable and good that that happened immediately here.

Why do male divers wear hands down and by a mile the smallest kit of the games? Consistently. All of them, over many years?

I knew very well that men's gymnastics was in the Olympics long before women's. You've probably clocked that I know more about the sport than you do. It just has nothing to do with any of the arguments made.

You have said, repeatedly, that when women and men have different things the women's is usually the crappest. That's been your whole argument throughout, well that and rebutting strawmen about there being no sexism in gymnastics that nobody has actually made. There's a substantial difference between X thing is influenced by sexism because everything is, and the women's version of X is worse than the men's.

And you have continually failed to provide an explanation for why you think the women are getting the shit end of the stick. The existence of music doesn't do that, especially as floor exercise isn't compulsory and gymnasts can specialise. Men and women having different things isn't in itself evidence that the men's version is superior. But you think that.

You are making men the default, and that is sexist.

Women are not saying the skimpiest outfit means liberation and emancipation. That is nowhere on this thread.

As to what men prefer, that should not restrict women's choices.

@cardibach however small the man's outfit in any sport - the woman's outfit manages to be smaller? Including the pants for diving.
Why?

I think the "flicky wrists" after doing a difficult summersault on a 4inch beam can look a bit contrived, and silly (though it was interesting that a PP, a gymnast herself, pointed out that this gives the athlete time to pause and recover her strength).

Yep, in both men's and women's there's time built into the longest routines for breath drawing!

The thing is, you keep telling us all there is sexism in gymnastics and nobody has denied it.

What nonsense! That’s the only point I’ve raised - that there is sexism afoot in gymnastics, and countless posters have disagreed with me, most notably @TheKeatingFive I think.

Why are we even arguing then, if you agree there’s sexism in gymnastics? I’d gathered from some of you that you believed gymnastics was some sort of pure, matriarchal feminist zone where everything was designed around women’s best interests.

I’m not the OP, you know. I haven’t used disparaging language about women’s performances. I only chipped in initially because I was gobsmacked by the ‘definitely no sexism here’ brigade who were being ridiculous,

Maybe check whose posts you actually disagree with before quoting left, right and centre?

Women's genitals protrude less than men's and don't need support to keep them still.

No, the men’s diving pants are way, way smaller than anything any woman at the games wears. The women divers wear smaller costumes than the women swimmers, sure, but the male swimmers also wear more than the male divers. Maybe they know best what to wear to compete? And maybe their sport bodies/team costume fixers also do, and wouldn’t choose something that makes it harder for them to de well, given that sport is a competition and everyone wants to win.

Show me where I said there was no sexism in gymnastics.

I disagreed with what you think constitutes sexism.

I was just thinking the same thing. Some direct quotes of where people have said sexism in gymnastics doesn't exist at all would be useful here.

The thread concerns women's clothing and grooming choices and gymnastics moves, criticised as silly and tacky.

I presumed that your repeated lament that posters weren't seeing the sexism in gymnastics was linked to these issues. But I couldn't work out how. Hence my questions.