Olympic gymnastics humiliates and infantilises grown adult women

[Thebellofstclements]

The ridiculous leotards, the twee hairstyles. Having to do the ridiculous flicky "dance" moves (artistic expression, ha!) and grinning inanely (insanely) in between moves and when presenting...
Arguably the best athletes in the world but these grown adult women have to present themselves in a ridiculous, almost grotesquely infantile manner, looking fairy cheap and tacky.
The men do not.
My family argues that the gymnasts choose to do this.
We know that historically female gymnasts have been abused with no voice, so I'm not convinced this is all what they would necessarily choose given the option. AIBU?

The rules may not stipulate removal of pubic hair and high cut leotards but that does not stop coaches/team managers from insisting upon these things if the girls wish to compete.

There is zero requirement to wear makeup or bows in their hair. Plenty don't.

Yes they have to wear their team strip, like any other sport. It seems that some teams have considerable input into that choice and it would be good if that became more widespread.

That is something which team members may challenge if it happens, but nobody has yet produced a shred of evidence on this thread that any of the Olympic gymnasts being described as tacky are uncomfortable with their chosen leotards.

I know very few women who don't remove visible body hair - it's a long established cultural norm and hardly specific to gymnasts.

I don't disagree that the 'dance'/'artistic' moves in between the tumbles, spins etc just look silly. They're not at all like dance; there's no flow or sense of rhythm or storytelling, not to the non-gymnastic expert eye anyway. Just looks like random sticking out of one arm, picking up of a foot etc.
Looking back at videos of the 80s (Olga Korbut et al), it's interesting to see that their dance bits, while still not totally like actual dance/artistic expression, do have more flow.
Of course that era was really problematic, with ultra-young gymnasts, doping, gymnasts forced to compete injured etc; I'm not defending it on any other grounds than that.
I'd just rather watch Simone Biles et al do their athletic skills without the mechanical-looking 'expressive' bits.

@Oftenaddled "Gymnasts do not have to remove their pubic hair, and they may wear leotards with legs of any length. As Sarah Voss does."

Sarah Voss can wear a unitard because that is the German official kit. Because the German gymnastics authorities have decided to address the issue of sexualisation of the sport and the reluctance of some young girls to participate at lower levels because of the kit they are required to wear.

They lose a tiny number of marks for disconnected moves like that. Floor was much harder in the 1970s so tumbling had a lower ceiling. Now floor has springs and harder moves are possible.

Gymnasts needed to be all rounders in the 1970s but now can make Olympics as specialists.

These two things mean that gymnasts spend less time training artistry - for vaulters and bars workers, none for that apparatus. But artistry is not a hidden requirement and it has been codified very carefully in recent years so that it doesn't reward thinness or youthfulness or womanliness or simpering etc. It's fine for you not to like it of course, but that doesn't detract from its value, popularity, or difficulty.

I think the way the men do floor looks much sillier. But then if you take out the transitions and the non acro elements, you might as well just replace floor with a tumble track.

The idea of a well choreographed, presented floor exercise is a good one (to my mind) and you don't have to go back to the 1970s to see that being done. The late 90s/early 00s it's still a strong expectation (though obviously some were better at this than others). I would love to see that come back, but difficulty levels are king, so unlikely.

On the flip side, the composition and flow of UB routines is WAY better than it used to be.

@Oftenaddled ", but nobody has yet produced a shred of evidence on this thread that any of the Olympic gymnasts being described as tacky are uncomfortable with their chosen leotards."

Well, apart from the actions and comments of the German federation I quoted earlier.

And others have consulted and rejected this option. And that's okay. Simone Biles does not want to wear a unitard. Rifda Irfanaluthfi does not want to pander to extremists sending her death threats by wearing a unitard.

We should not sexualise the wearing of leotards.

And they are wearing what they want to wear! Not all gymnasts want to wear unitards. None of the younger German gymnasts choose to wear them, although they've been on offer for years.

And I am sure that every one of those young women wear swim shorts and long tops when they go swimming. Or do they wear bikinis or thongs, which pretty much means all/most of the pubic hair is history.

I've been watching the olympics with dc and yes, I felt uncomfortable watching some of the female contestants because of how scant their outfits were - beach volleyball and diving, for example.
The outfits were fine only a few years ago? Am I imagining they've suddenly shrank?

Surely, simply having full pants covering their bottom cheeks (like the men in diving) is not restrictive, but actually much more comfortable?

My cousin's daughter, 16yo, has started running at international races and she's got a pair of those tiny, tiny pants and I just think it adds extra level of discomfort for someone who is already nervous being new at racing.

And I'm sure she chose her outfit herself- just not convinced she picked it for comfort and optimum performance.

You're the one who did the male as default, though. Which means you introduced the problem (admittedly, others in the thread have engaged in that same sexism). You just don't have the wherewithal to understand that's what you were doing.

The fact is that women's gymnastics is unusual in being designed around and for the female body, rather than the male being default, and in being an activity where the women enjoy more success and rewards than the men doing the same thing. It was one thing for you to do the male as default schtick when you didn't know all this, but now you do so the excuse has been evaporated. You have, over dozens of posts, engaged in the women's things are crap because they're women's trope.

It's horribly sexist, and particularly depressing because you clearly imagine it to be a feminist take.

Wait - so…all the male divers wear the tiniest trunks imaginable but it’s their decision and they could wear something else if they wanted to, but the female gymnasts who have the option of leotard or unitard are being forced into the leotard and aren’t allowed to wear anything else? How do you arrive at that thought? Do you just think the men MUST be making their own decision but the women CAN’T POSSIBLY be? Why?

When you look at the variety of cuts on offer for swimwear and underwear, it's clear that tastes and opinions vary on what's most comfortable.

I can't speak to beach volleyball or diving, so won't. But I've seen nothing inappropriate in gymnastics.

I'm still waiting to see the "drag queen" makeup and over-elaborate hairdos people have references. And I think gymnasts have done great work introducing the unitard, but that it is regressive to use that to suggest the other women should cover up.

Well, I didn't say anything to denigrate its value, popularity, or difficulty.

Simone B is also a pretty good dancer; she definitely can perform with flow, musicality etc. I suppose that just isn't what's required or rewarded in gymnastics.

A USA rugby player talking about choosing to wear lipstick in competition. Might be interesting for those of you who take offence with the gymnasts wearing make-up. This athlete said it was almost a two fingers up to the idea that she can't be an elite athlete and also feminine - don't think I can be multi-faceted...watch me. People will rush here to say that the stereotypes of rugby players are different to gymnasts, and that's true, but it's also true that we saw a huge variety in the amount and type of makeup worn by gymnasts. If it really was an advantage to wear heavy makeup I guarantee you every woman on Sunday would have been in full beat, looking like pagent queens, they largely weren't, what does that tell you?

Power to Rifda and fuck the extremists!

You don’t think an international, world class athlete chose her sports wear for comfort and optimum performance? Now that is a seriously sexist view.
Edit - or were you talking about the person you know? Same applies if she’s doing international events.

Sure. Someone with fantastic artistry might end up with an extra point in all around competition over someone with desperately poor artistry. That's in a world where you need 52 or so points to make a final. It makes very little difference as the code stands, but it can tip the balance of course between gymnasts who are close on difficulty and execution.

@cardibach if it's so comfortable why are men not choosing the half-exposed-bum look?
She's sixteen. I would've chosen similar at her age but now I see things differently.

I've been doing my best all my life to be a fair person - to all sexes - sorry to hear, I'm coming across as sexist to you.

So you are saying when I was watching the USA team competing they all just happened to buy the same outfit? They all liked that better than any other outfit?

Personally I couldn't care less about make up or hair. I do think some of these young women are facing pressure to wear leotards that effectively expose their backsides with very minimal covering of their vulvas when doing exercises with legs akimbo. When watching it the other day I couldn't believe that every woman in a team was comfortable with that.

They are wearing a team strip. They were consulted on its design. They had individual fittings. Gymnasts on the same team can wear unitards and leotards in the same pattern if they choose.

You will see all but one of these gymnasts in individual finals where they wear different leotards, individual choice. I will be amazed if any of them shows up in a unitard or notably different cut because they have never done so in their years of individual competition to this point. But if they want to, they can. If they don't, that okay and not tacky or sexualised.