Olympic gymnastics humiliates and infantilises grown adult women

[Thebellofstclements]

The ridiculous leotards, the twee hairstyles. Having to do the ridiculous flicky "dance" moves (artistic expression, ha!) and grinning inanely (insanely) in between moves and when presenting...
Arguably the best athletes in the world but these grown adult women have to present themselves in a ridiculous, almost grotesquely infantile manner, looking fairy cheap and tacky.
The men do not.
My family argues that the gymnasts choose to do this.
We know that historically female gymnasts have been abused with no voice, so I'm not convinced this is all what they would necessarily choose given the option. AIBU?

Not that there's anything wrong with women doing pommels, but gymnastics is unusual in playing to the strengths of different sexes rather than the women's sport being held back by the fact that men are inherently stronger and more powerful.

This puts it beautifully and in a nutshell.

'@AGoingConcern
Gymnasts are incredible athletes who dedicate decades of their life to perfecting their sport, and you’re on here shitting all over it because it’s not your cup of tea.

Go watch something else and stop denigrating women in their chosen sport.'

Well said.

Also I am not sure why the OP is picking on gymnastics either. With her logic she could say the same thing about ballet, iceskating, synchronised swimming...

To me gymnasts just look like powerful athletes at the top of their game doing something they love.

😂

I've actually been thinking how more female (and male) athletes are dressing up for competition - hair, nails, what they wear. Seems most prominent in athletics, tennis, football, but I've seen it in other sports too. Maybe it's an expression of their individuality. Maybe it's to stand out to attract sponsors. It doesn't surprise me that some gymnasts want to add sparkle to their leotards to feel a bit special for competition. And in non-team events don't they wear their own choice of leotard anyway?

I do think artistry shouldn't have a place in Olympics by the way. I used to watch a lot of figure skating and enjoyed the artistry side of it, but the judging was so subjective, it turned me off. I loved ballet too, but I think artistry and music belongs on the stage and in performance, not in sport.

Having said that I do appreciate that gymnasts need a breather to reset. But maybe they should be allowed to just pause.

And posters have a touching faith in the autonomy afforded to people training for and chosen for national-or,indeed less prestigious-sports teams....

There are women who could do well on men's events, and men who could do well on women's events, but gymnasts take up a large chunk of Olympic quotas already and there are dozens of sports scrabbling to be let in. Add that to the decade or so of training and expanding either sport isn't a practical proposition at Olympic level. In the US at least, you can compete any of the range of events as an amateur.

But the women's competitive code is written for women, with more emphasis on flexibility and leg strength, to suit more women's physiologies. Of course, no sport works for everyone, and other sports are available.

But if wearing those things requires you to have a good figure, and you are choosing not to because you feel you don’t, then you’re not choosing to wear them yourself for comfort or because you love them.

It’s all very subtle with regards to societal norms and expectations. Women are indeed making choices, but we don’t live in a vacuum where we choose entirely what we want, independent of how we think others will react, or whether it will help us get ahead.

Of course, it can work the other way too. Some women might love to wear skimpy clothes, but don’t because it brings unwanted male attention. Imagine a world where the male gaze didn’t drive what women act and how they dress.

How do you think it would look?

And you’re right, I don’t wear make up. My legs aren’t hairy, but that’s just luck.

No. As a long time gymnast and someone who adores the sport, absolutely no. Women’s gymnastics is an amazing sport in its own right and it doesn’t need to be unisex or stripped of its unique components. We don’t need to do some watered down version of rings - an event that is tailored to male upper body strength after the child level - or give up uneven bars and dance. It’s ok to be unapologetically a women’s sport. This is one of the few sports that isn’t just a lightly modified category of a traditionally male sport.

Not every sport is going to be perfect for every athlete. That’s ok. Tumbling and trampoline are their own sports, and there are growing recreational options for youth and club gymnasts who want to compete in co-ed environments, but we don’t need to take away competitive women’s gymnastics as it exists.

Nothing, if it's genuinely a "choice". But don't conflate "pressure to conform" with "choice".

But the swimmers don't mind wearing them.

My ds has about 8 pairs of the Speedo's the divers wear as they get given them by aquatics gb as part of the kit.

And if they don't want to train in the Speedo ones they choose to wear the ones like granny pants. They can even wear jammers if they choose.

They race in the tech suit jammers though. They would t not because they are designed to support you in racing and are fitted to you.

Warped view. Would you say the same about professional dancers? Artistry is part of women’s gymnastics hence they are called artistic gymnasts as opposed to acrobatic, rhythmic etc.

Having a daughter as an elite gymnast, I may be biased but I can only affirm how dedicated, hard working and talented these gymnasts are. The amount of training and strength required to perform the moves you see, takes years and years.

It’s a bit sexist though to require women to wear decorative leotards and hairstyles in order to compete though, isn’t it?

Oh and the majority of the girls wear shorts whilst training. During competitions this is becoming more acceptable, and indeed some gymnasts are opting for the full body suits. However it does make it tricky for the judges to observe leg formation (ie lines in leaps) when marking skills which is why they still prefer the leotards.

I haven't watched the synchronised swimming yet, maybe I'll feel the same.
Ballet isn't an olympic sport so not relevant.
Ice skating is a winter olympic sport, but the men are primped like peacocks and feel obliged to mostly smile for points as well as the women so there isn't the stark difference that gets my goat with the gym.

But they are required to wear them.

You could wear a plain black unitard and you'd not lose any points from it.

It's a choice. They are - rightly- very proud of what they do.

yes, so it's a good thing decorative hairstyles and leotards are not required

Aren't** required

I have no issue with gymnasts wearing leotards if it is a full choice without pressures from others. As PP has said, kids can't wear shorts for comps etc.

If you have a look at gymnasts for change and what Becky and Ellie Downie, Amy Tinkler et al reported it's pretty hard to believe that these gymnasts are fully autonomous in their sport. There won't have been a full culture change in such a short space of time. I also suspect that we haven't even scratched the surface in male gymnastics either.

That's always a concern. But given how differently gymnasts on the same teams present, there doesn't seem to be inappropriate pressure at this level.

There has been a huge amount of work and discussion on these issues in gymnastics. It's been helped by the fact that there are celebrities like Biles, older competitors like Pauline Schaefer, and a culture that is more about celebrating the women and their achievements. There is always work to be done. But jumping in saying makeup and sparkles = bad is undermining the women within the sport who enjoy these things and have also been thoughtful and persistent advocates for women's empowerment.

I do think artistry shouldn't have a place in Olympics by the way. I used to watch a lot of figure skating and enjoyed the artistry side of it, but the judging was so subjective, it turned me off. I loved ballet too, but I think artistry and music belongs on the stage and in performance, not in sport.

Perhaps it’s the professional artist in me and the industry training speaking, but you can’t completely take artistry away in most fields in life. Or sports, for that matter.

I am a passionate sports fan, in various disciplines, and artistry and beauty are appreciated and highly valued in an array of sports.

We appreciate beautiful goals with unpredictable trajectory. Why aren’t those banned in favour of straight, penalty kick goals only? Let’s eliminate beauty in football.

We are thrown back by a unique, difficult and original overtake in motorsports. Let’s take that away too and make it overtake-button only.

Whether artistry and beauty standards are enforced ethically or not, is a valid and necessary discussion. However, I am of the opinion that sports don’t have to full exclude the subjective and beautiful aspects of life - creativity and originality is what has made sports advance and progress through history. The emphasis still is on physical ability and achievement, but the most famous athletes are well-known for also pushing boundaries of their sport and making it more human and appealing to us, mortals who pass judgment from the comfort of our sofas.

@SummaLuvin hair styles are not required but Simone Biles has had to reply AGAIN this week to people complaining that her hair is a mess when competing (mainly because her hair doesn't respond the way that white people's hair does)

The leotards are necessary so that they are unnecumbered by bulky or loose fabric when they move and also for the judges to see their posture and movements clearly in order to mark them.

They probably look infantilised to you because they all seem really petite and flat chested, like pre-pubescent girls, but that's just the natural build of a good gymnast plus the effects on their muscles of the type of exercise they do.

All the flicky arm movements and prancing around between tumbles etc, may look silly to you (they look a bit silly to me too) but they are essential for balance and poise and for the routine to flow smoothly.

No-one forces these young women to participate in this discipline, least of all men, and if they hated doing it then they simply wouldn't be good enough to get to an international level, so you needn't feel pity for them.

And it's no different for ballet dancers.

which is unacceptable from some members of the general public, but saying it is required in the sport implies she may be docked points if she doesn't comply to a level of perceived neatness or decoration - this is not the case. Racism in viewers who run their mouths cannot be put onto the sport when it doesn't have rules mirroring this. I don't think the code of point has ANY rules with hair whatsoever. A Japanese woman with short hair competes with it loose. Many others who have long hair choose to secure it in a pony tail or bun, of varying styles and complexities, some then choose to add clip, scrunches, bows, and glitter. Non of this is required or even promoted, it's just a variable in presentation.

Another discipline that has recently been exposed for sexual abuse at the top level and eating disorders being rife.