Olympic gymnastics humiliates and infantilises grown adult women

[Thebellofstclements]

The ridiculous leotards, the twee hairstyles. Having to do the ridiculous flicky "dance" moves (artistic expression, ha!) and grinning inanely (insanely) in between moves and when presenting...
Arguably the best athletes in the world but these grown adult women have to present themselves in a ridiculous, almost grotesquely infantile manner, looking fairy cheap and tacky.
The men do not.
My family argues that the gymnasts choose to do this.
We know that historically female gymnasts have been abused with no voice, so I'm not convinced this is all what they would necessarily choose given the option. AIBU?

The same reason most sports are sex segregated. Because the men will have a massive structural advantage on the majority of the events, so it will simply become one more thing where they dominate, and one more opportunity taken away from women.

It's a completely rubbish idea, not least because if you like acrobatics but not the performance aspects there are already alternative sports available in trampolining and tumbling.

But that’s just people online being arseholes, which is an unfortunate fact of life and not rules imposed by the federation. The gymnastics federation has no stipulations on hair which is why we see female gymnasts with hair so short it doesn’t need tying up, glitter hair spray, neat buns, ribbons and bows, casual ponytails etc. Simone had no pushback from her hair by the FIG (nor should she have).

Watching Biles yesterday it saddened me that every time she was shown on camera waiting for her results she obviously saw herself on the big screen and started fixing her hair. She clearly does care about the shitty comments and I don't blame her. We're still a long way from letting women be professional athletes without constantly focusing on their appearance.

I’m not suggesting that the mend is more authentic or better whatsoever. I’m also not saying I prefer one or the other.

I’m questioning why, when as you say the dance & artistry has a long history why it’s only included in the women’s gymnastics and not the men’s as well?

Why shouldn’t gymnasts of both sexes be rated on including these elements to their sport, as it is women have to do more in the routines than the men.

Gymnasts begin as tiny children. In some countries they have no choice, they are basically labelled and channelled into it, then kept underdeveloped. Remember the childlike 14 year olds of the past? Thank goodness for Simone and her powerhouse physique.

The costumes - the word gymnastics means 'exercise naked'. I do feel a bit 🧐 seeing how exposed they can look in their leotards, most of which have wrist length sleeves but buttock slicing bottom halves. Leggings are a definitely a gymnastics thing now; whoever has that say on the teams chooses to say no.

I remember seeing tiny Soviet girls being bent and stretched and pulled about by male coaches, hands everywhere, making them as supple as possible.

The sexual abuser gym coach is definitely an issue in the sport.

I agree, the exposure isn't necessary, and we don't see the men doing similar moves.

There are serious problems in gymnastics as a whole and the joint exposing and infantilising of the women and girls is the issue that I think the OP is examining. Beware screaming at her over vocabulary; she's right.

Please read this:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/gymnastics/61843628

Yep. Simone has been subjected to racist comments about her hair because she is a high profile, exceptionally successful black woman operating in a world where misogynoir punishes that kind of thing.

If you look back at the first black gymnasts winning major medals in the 90s, Dominique Dawes has talked about feeling her hair was wrong then. The leotards weren't glittery back when and there was less makeup. It's not because of the rules or norms of the sport, it's because racism permeates everything and gymnastics is included in 'everything'.

Most women I see out jogging wear leggings and tight tops, often crop tops. Occasionally I see men jogging in leggings but mostly it’s baggy shorts. I see women wearing baggy sports clothes some times but in general it feels like women’s exercise clothes are tight whereas men’s are baggy. Maybe it’s to do with men’s bollocks flapping about in Lycra?

Soviet gymnastics was more into male artistry. Maybe they will go there more eventually. Western culture has often been a bit uncomfortable around make artistry over the years - Billy Elliott style

But the sports are independent of each other, so it doesn't matter to the women what men do. The women's sport has its own rules.

My DD1 plays netball. They all wear stupid dresses that are basically long tops, all the girls wear shorts underneath. DD2 plays football, her kit = baggy knees length shorts.

You can absolutely enter the conversation around abuse in gymnastics.

But the OP wasn't doing that. She was complaining about what women look like.

Well in unity there is power. I'm pretty sure all the national Olympic committees would have to act if their teams said we ain't playing until we have a say in the uniforms. I was interested in the difference when watching the archery, normal sport outfits and no thongs going up their bums.

Maybe there needs to be a union for athletes.

This may be informative for those telling me I'm misinformed. Apparently most female gymnasts do not wear underwear - they can lose points for wardrobe malfunctions such as VPL or visible bra strap. The question remains, why are female gymnasts judged on their appearance so much more than male gymnasts?

https://www.omega-gymnastics.com/what-do-gymnasts-wear/#:~:text=What%20do%20gymnasts%20wear%20under%20their%20leotards%3F,support%20and%20protection%20they%20need.

That's exactly what you did, actually. You defined what the men do as focusing purely on the gymnastics at hand, and characterised what the women do as the added layer. That's you making a judgement about what constitutes gymnastics, because otherwise what you'd written wouldn't make any sense.

By all means ask why the men's sport has developed differently to the women's sport. Nothing wrong in that. And of course sexism plays a part, as it does in literally everything. But the problem arises when you think the men's is the default, the standard.

Also, as a point of fact men have more events than women. It's not compulsory to do the all around, so that makes any claim that one sex 'has to' do more incorrect. But even with the all arounders, men have more events. A male all arounder is doing more than a female all arounder. But that's up to the men's gymnastics governing federation, they could reduce the number of events if they wanted.

Of course but back then gymnasts weren't the powerhouses they are now, and no sprung floor. Therefore the entire routine was a great deal more graceful and artistic. Genuinely graceful.

Nowadays the flicky wrists amongst the mind-blowing leaps, spins and tumbles is an irritating distraction, jarring with the rest of the routine. In my opinion.

I've found several of the comments from those with an in depth knowledge of the specific rules really interesting. I'm still not convinced gymnasts have as much autonomy as everyone else thinks, years of institutionalised abuse don't just stop.

Unfortunately quite a few posters seem to think I don't like gym, just because I disagree with some aspects of the culture.

" stop denigrating women in their chosen sport."

AGoingConcern, There's no legal requirement to actually read the OP, but it's less embarrassing if you do.

Always good to read a well thought out argument 🙄

OP YANBU. It has changed little since I watched it in the 80s. They are incredible athletes and dont need to ponce about like they do, the men dont have to.

Roll on seeing a trans bulging out of those little leotards though 😳

I'm not saying there aren't issues, abuses or extraordinary pressures in either discipline. But that's beside the point and not the intended subject for discussion in this thread.

If a female gymast wanted to wear a completely plain leotard, or one that came down her like cycling shorts, no bows in her hair, no sequins, no make up, then I am sure she'd be entitled to do so. It's the same with ballroom dancing though, a certain effort is made and expected (if not exactly demanded) in looking eye catching and colourful.

The fact that no male gymnasts wear any of these things, well in general, women do choose look more decorative through choice, and men don't through choice. That's the case in all things, not just gymnastics. Is there a rule that says male gymnasts cannot wear sparkles or hair accessories if they wanted to? I have no idea. But if not, then we can assume they look plain through choice.

That could change though, as more and more men embrace dressing in what has traditionally been seen as 'feminine' ways. Some might decide they want to sparkle and look pretty just like the women. The only problem being that at the moment, most men seem to think that wanting to sparkle and look pretty actually makes them a woman, so they might not want to be competing in the men's competitions anyway.

Just to clarify, I agree that sport can be beautiful and I wouldn't seek to eliminate that. 🙄 I only meant that judging sport on its artistry such that it affects the scoring or outcome is something I don't agree with, at least not in the Olympics.

But there are a lot of new "sports" that have been introduced to the Olympics to keep it relevant and entertaining so the organisers obviously feel differently.

I think that's the problem with a lot of international sports really. The athletes really, desperately want to compete and in so many cases the federations hold the balance of power. Not so much when you're a big name and/or rich in your own right. It's all ripe for a lot of coercion.

still no. This is the current code of points, the rule book adjudicating major international competitions, section 2.3.2 covers competing attire and potential penalties. Underwear is not mentioned. I think what you are referring to is an old rule that USAG had, the American gymnastics governing body, it's not ok they had the rule but they don't anymore, and it is not a rule in place at the Olympics and I don't think ever has been. Most gymnasts simply don't want to flash their knickers or bra so keep them covered.

Isn't that true of a lot of Olympic sports, though? Tom Daley was diving at that level at 14. Rebecca Addington was talking last night about how young she had to start the intense training for swimming. Most sports have a short physical window. Even if they aren't competing that young, they'll already be training intensively. There's very few competing athletes/football/rugby/hockey etc who started the work to get there as late as 16. The Williams sisters spent their childhood training to become champions.

Yep. The location of the relevant rules is pretty basic stuff, incidentally, if you know anything much about the sport.

If a female gymast wanted to wear a completely plain leotard, or one that came down her like cycling shorts, no bows in her hair, no sequins, no make up, then I am sure she'd be entitled to do so. It's the same with ballroom dancing though, a certain effort is made and expected (if not exactly demanded) in looking eye catching and colourful. They wear a uniform don't they or is it some sort of coincidence that every woman on the team wears the same outfit.

I enjoy watching gymnastics more than ballet. To me the movements of ballet seem more grotesque in a way.
But I do worry that a lot of the gymnasts look so childish like, I can't imagine many of them can menstruate. The makeup and hair is tacky, but it's like clown paint. Ice skaters wear similar. It's very OTT. I still find both male and female gymnastics one of the only olympic sport that's actually interesting to watch.
I don't think it's well paid though, far from it.

I believe the bunches “look” started with Olga Korbut and has been emulated ever since