DC’s teacher didn’t go to university.

[RabbitWedge]

Two of my DC’s are at the same secondary private school. It’s a small private school, not a well known name, but costs a small fortune nonetheless. An interaction with one of my DC’s English teachers at the end of term has made me feel uncomfortable.

‘Mrs Jones’ has worked at the school for a number of years. She is a very well liked English teacher; the children love her and she’s given high praise on the parents WhatsApp group. At the end of term, I was having a casual chit chat with ‘Mrs Jones’ and the topic of university came up. I asked ‘Mrs Jones’ where she went to university, and she stated that she had not gone and didn’t have a degree. I must have looked very taken aback, as she quickly added that she had an impeccable educational record (apparently all A’s and A*’s), she’d been tutoring for a number of years and working as a TA, at which point the school promoted her to teach English. I didn’t ask for this explanation, but she perhaps felt the need to justify her teaching.

I was under the impression that all teachers had to have degrees at the very least, and whilst I don’t doubt her popularity and delivery of her English lessons, I am concerned. I was aware that teachers in the private system didn’t need to be qualified teachers, but to not even have attended university seems unsuitable.

Would you raise this with the school in my position?

Honestly? I'm a teacher. I have two degrees and a PGCE. And I could have skipped all of them for the training they provided me in doing my job. Everything of value I learned about education I learned on the job.

She has loads of experience as a TA and a proven track record of success as a teacher. That's far more valuable than any module I took at uni.

You are concerned that your child's teacher didn't go to university, but you know that private schools often employ untrained teachers. You're getting what you signed up for. When I did my teaching degree, the best teachers often went to the toughest state schools, while two of my friends, who had poor classroom management skills, went into private schools because they believed they weren't good enough for state schools.
Most private schools now go through Ofsted, and standards have improved. In state schools, because of tight budgets and a lack of staff, high-level teaching assistants may be used as teachers.
The bottom line is how knowledgeable, skillful and effective the teacher is. You have no reason to complain if she is teaching your child well.

Yeah, well it’s true.

I think quite a lot of private school ‘teachers’ aren’t really qualified. I was really surprised when I heard this, I have several friends who have dc at private schools and it’s really odd, probably because I’m a state secondary teacher and everyone I work with has a degree.

Generally, the rule for teaching in state schools is that you can teach to A level whatever your degree is and to GCSE whatever your A levels are in.

‘Most private schools now go through Ofsted, and standards have improved.’

That’s not true. They have their own, incredibly biased inspectorate which is there to support the whole private school system - and it’s toothless. no powers other than reporting to actual authorities if they find dangerous situations.

My friend's DC took a gap year between A levels (straight A's) and university and ended up teaching GCSE science in a private school. It was a small school but expensive but parents were not paying for the qualifications of the teachers.

I have a degree and I tech I’ve always thought that having a degree doesn’t make you a good or better teacher. Subject passion and inter personal skills are much more important.

Usually its degree or equivalent experience. It's not that long ago most teachers didn't have a degree. A degree is not a guarantee of ability.

That’s not my experience in the local private schools nearby. All the adverts for teaching positions that come out require fully qualified teachers with a degree and a PGCE.

However, I have to agree with many on here, a degree doesn’t make you a good teacher.
You might achieve top grades at uni and be rubbish at teaching.

A degree is not a guarantee of ability, but it's some sort of indicator of subject knowledge. Provided, of course, that the school does not demand that a French teacher teach physics. An awful lot has to do with being well-read and experienced, however. I do not have a degree in English, but was obliged to teach Cambridge GCSE English Language at my private school, and one of my boys was top in the country in the subject. Mind you, one of my girls was the top student in the world in A2 Classics too. A subject in which I did one of my degrees.

Religious schools too.

What a dick post

You only need a degree and QTS to teach in a state school. Independent schools can and do employ anyone they like. They’re a business after all, so if they are paying an unqualified teacher, they’re quids in.

I agree Bibble.

I don’t know how those schools would pass their inspections then, by OFSTED or ISI or whatever. The inspectors at any school I’ve known have been very keen on checking paperwork.

And, yes, all private schools have to be inspected.

All private schools must be registered with the government and are inspected regularly. Source: gov.uk here.

At least having a degree in the subject taught ensures said teacher has been exposed to the basic principles/tenets of the field. Who’s checking whether she has enough breadth of knowledge on literary classics? What if all the woman had read is Hilary Mantel? Your child is not going to fit in at Oxbridge if they aren’t able to discuss Chaucer etc lol.

That wasn't unusual in those days, but the teacher training and certificate ensured that the person was qualified. There are still some people teaching in Scotland who qualified via previous experience or college diplomas, but they still had a teaching qualification obtained at one of the teaching colleges.

There were some non-certificated teachers still around in the 70s and very early 80s, for practical subjects but that was phased out. (No teacher training at all.) I had a relative who spent one year as a peripatetic teacher of PE in primary, round in the late 1960s.

Well leaving aside the fact that all the post-grad historians I know rate Mantel as a writer who's done her research, you are just making random casual statements now that have nothing to do with the OP. Sadly Chaucer gets taught to no-one now at secondary level and any Oxbridge English candidate would be expected to have done extensive independent reading of their own. Also, it's pretty rare, if not unheard of, for a student to go through 7 years of secondary school with the same teacher for one subject. You're reaching now and making straw man arguments.

I never said there was anything wrong with Hilary Mantel. She’s great. But it would be a problem if that was the only thing the teacher had read. Chaucer was an example. You can substitute that with any other author of your choosing. I would not be happy sending my child to a £19k+ a year private school and their English teacher wasn’t aware of the merits and criticisms of Dickens, Hardy, Austen,Brontë sisters etc. What on earth are you paying for?

Yes, definitely raise it.
Then they will know you're that parent

You don't know that this teacher doesn't know that. Can people only read and learn at a uni? Most arts degrees, including mine, have minimal contact hours and certainly don't cover all authors that a teacher might ever need to know. The syllabi books get updated and changed all the time.

If you read any of the many many threads about private schools you will know that there are just as many reasons for sending your child to one as there are threads! (And just as many total misconceptions about what those schools are like, can offer and do). Getting to Oxbridge is actually not high on most people's list. The OPs teacher sounds amazing. The lessons are good, the kids like her and are learning and she gets good results. Would you honestly prefer a PhD who knows every aspect of classic literature but has no idea how to relate that to teens? Or to shut down twatty boy in the corner who is trying to derail the lesson?

It is perfectly acceptable to question the capabilities of a teacher who, on the face of it, does not appear qualified.

I was taught by a teacher who wasn’t qualified in that specific subject. She asked me to stop asking questions in class. I went on to study the subject at university - she had misunderstood a number of the core concepts.

I wish my parents had raised it with the school. Teachers aren’t Gods - it’s okay to question them.

Yes, I hear this too. There are parents who have paid for their children to have these advantages and yet still have to pay extra for tutors. (I had a colleague who supplemented his state school income by tutoring private school girls for their Higher English exam.)

I've not heard what happened to the teacher featured in TES, but I imagine that they're no longer at any school private or otherwise, since they were actually struck off the register: it wasn't simply the case that they failed. I've never heard of anyone being able to return to the register unless there was a mutual agreement to a temporary suspension.

To this day, I can't figure out how they managed to obtain a reference for a job at the private school: they certainly didn't get one from their previous employer. I suppose they must have persuaded someone with the right connections to give them a character reference. I wouldn't have wanted them anywhere near a child of mine.

you know that private schools often employ untrained teachers

Do we know that? It's not my experience. I have taught extensively in both state and private. I am not aware of anyone in private without QTS. Honestly, I don't think our parents would accept it. A teaching qualification should be the minimum you expect when you're paying. My HOD wouldn't consider anyone without QTS - and as a shortage area subject, we struggle to recruit.

That’s not good enough when you are paying ££ premium for top tier education. I don’t want to take a chance on the hope that this woman has read around proficiently enough in her free time. Sure anyone can do that, but in this context a parent should be guaranteed this teacher knows the basics of what they’re talking about. With a structured degree you are also introduced to viewpoints that you might not have considered/angles you haven’t thought of. Just being liked and able to control a class is irrelevant as an English teacher if you don’t know your subject.

Subject knowledge is important, as you suggest. Having a degree is not a proxy for subject knowledge.