AIBU but is Vegan Leather a con?

[Lincslady53]

We are looking a what our next car will be, and on looking at review videos on youtube a number of new cars have the option of 'vegan leather' upholstery. I google what this material is. Answer. POLYURETHANE! So instead of covering the seats in a natural, biodegradable product, it is a man made, from oil, that will break down into micro plastics, and take forever to totally degrade. AIBU to think that marketing companies take the public for fools?

Spot on, the greenest car is always the oldest car, ditto most of our material goods.
Veganism and environmentalism are completely different ethical frameworks and people may subscribe to one or both, attacking greenwashing is not an attack on either framework.

Green policies are too often gesture politics and green consumerism to make people feel good about themselves whilst continuing to buy and to garner votes.

In what language does vegan mean not?

And therein lies the problem. Most people aren’t intelligent. And I mean that in a statistical sense. Most people are, by definition, of average intelligence.
Marketing works. Companies wouldn’t spend millions upon millions of pounds on it if it didn’t. So whereas you or I would see straight through it, the majority wouldn’t.

Except it isn't. Technology has moved on.

It’s neither. She is decrying greenwashing. As I already said.

Well yes but most people who don't want to wear/ use leather would also not want to eat a cow. But I do agree with you - if you want to eat animals then use as much of it as possible.

I'm in agreement with PP on worrying about the oil content of your 'vegan leather' whilst driving a car, however if I have a choice between plastic clothing/ shoes and using leather, cotton, linen etc I will always choose non plastic. I know it's not popular on Mumsnet or social media to believe it but there is a middle ground with these things.

Yes they take us for fools.
For decades Fry's chocolate creme bars were vegan, one of the few chocolate bars that were and weren't prohibitively expensive.
Amazingly now they have milk added. And cadburys sell an overpriced plant based dairy milk instead.

There are lots of vegan leathers available. Not all are nasty plastic type things (for example Vegetarian Shoes use a lively soft material in their "doc martens" and satchels which feels identical to leather and the boota last for years, yet actual doc martens use something that reninds me of the vinyl sofa we had in the early 80s) but maybe look at cloth seat covers instead.

Also leather is not a magic material, as well as the cruelty aspect (it isn't a byproduct. Cattle are bred specifically for leather) but also involves a lot of chemicals not to mention the impact of the cattle industry on the environment and local communities.

https://www.peta.org/issues/animals-used-for-clothing/leather-industry/leather-environmental-hazards/

Again, she is bashing greenwashing. I.e. a marketing ploy to get consumers to spend their money on things they are being lead to believe might be good for the environment when it’s not so cut and dry as that.

I would say SOME vegans are very educated on the products they buy but definitely not all! Some people will go vegan because it’s trendy to do so and may do very little research at all on the topic. Those will be the ones that buy ‘plant based’ products that are full of palm oil and not realise the detrimental impacts it has.

Also, I’m not sure how you can care about animals and NOT care about the environment. We all live in an ecosystem and the two are inextricably linked. All the talk of ‘saving the planet’ is bollocks. The planet will be absolutely fine and will keep on turning through environmental disaster after environmental disaster, long after we’ve become extinct, until the sun swallows it whole.
Caring about the ‘environment’ is actually caring about humans and the various other species that would die out if we continue to fuck up the planet as we are.

Recently I was looking online for a leather handbag. So many I saw had 'leather tote' or similar in the headline description and I had to look closely at the small print to discover that it was actually 'vegan leather'. To me that's downright misleading and false advertising.

@JWhipple

“Also leather is not a magic material, as well as the cruelty aspect (it isn't a byproduct. Cattle are bred specifically for leather)”

This is incorrect, and even the PETA site you link to doesn’t claim it.

Sorry to nitpick, but when any statistics can be selectively used to support diametrically opposite positions, all least facts should be correct.

I agree. "Vegan leather handbag" is fine, but "Leather handbag" should mean leather.

In the past it would have been obvious from the price, but now many labels are trying to sell "vegan leather" handbags at premium prices, so you have to be careful.

The flip side of that is that oil for PVC takes millions of years to form, and leather from a cow might grow in a couple of years. It’s a renewable resource and a durable material. I’ll agree to disagree with you on the ethics of farming animals.

I don’t really know how they get away with this under trades descriptions. You just have to remember that ‘vegan’ means ‘not’. Not leather, not cheese, not milk…

https://www.reddit.com/r/vegan/comments/qggu6z/is_peta_as_evil_as_ive_been_told/

You are sensitive. It is not an anti vegan thread, it is an anti bullshit marketing thread.

@Lincslady53 how long will it take the rest of your car's components to biodegrade? Or are you only bothered about the seats?

This?

Although my first thought was veg tanned leather.

(Vegetable tanning is an alternative method of tanning leather that uses natural materials, such as tree bark, to tan hides. This method has been used for centuries and is considered to be more environmentally friendly than traditional chrome tanning.)

I've got vegan leather items made out of banana blossom or similar. Not always plastic.

Why would it be a con?

I doubt a vegan 'leather' handbag bought in a high street shop at an affordable price will be made out of banana blossom.

Can you link the actual car and material list please?

Not all vegan leather is poly plastic and I'm interested to see if your specific one is.

Agree with others. If something is vegan that doesn't contain animal products. This is a really stupid thread.

If you're angry, it comes down to marketing standards. Is leather a words specific to animal based products or is it a descriptor.

This has all the hallmarks of the vegan sausage/tube arguement (the ine where the meat industry are adamant that only meat should be called a sausage). Where do you sit on that arguement? Do you use the words yourself or do you describe vegan leather as plastic (despite it not all being so) and refuse to use the word sausage in relation to anything other than meat? I.e. do you offer guests vegan tubes and start threads about that?

www.theguardian.com/world/2020/oct/23/european-farmers-lose-attempt-to-ban-terms-such-veggie-burger

Its a wonderful strawman for being angry about vegan shopping when it doesn't affect anyones choice about where people spend their own money.

It certainly isn't the Gotcha moment some posters think it is.

It is vegan, whether it's "as ethical" as leather or not. I'd be far more cross at the number of products, usually hair care, cleverly labelling themselves as "vegan formulas" when the product is tested on animals and happily gifting them to vegan friends (who promptly get rid of them).

It isn’t just greenwashing, some people don’t want to sit on the skin of a dead animal.