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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

AIBU but is Vegan Leather a con?

152 replies

Lincslady53 · 27/07/2024 07:10

We are looking a what our next car will be, and on looking at review videos on youtube a number of new cars have the option of 'vegan leather' upholstery. I google what this material is. Answer. POLYURETHANE! So instead of covering the seats in a natural, biodegradable product, it is a man made, from oil, that will break down into micro plastics, and take forever to totally degrade. AIBU to think that marketing companies take the public for fools?

OP posts:
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Devonbabs · 27/07/2024 08:59

Mumoftwo1316 · 27/07/2024 08:04

Real leather is a by product of the meat industry. If we stopped using leather, we wouldn't be saving any animals, the same number of cows would be killed for their beef.

Using leather means you are wasting less of the already-slaughtered animal.

No it’s a product of the abuse and slaughter of animals. It’s like saying pork chops are a bi product of the bacon industry.

Maybe we should just stop needlessly abusing and slaughtering animals.

Ponoka7 · 27/07/2024 09:01

Stella McCartney makes her vegan leather from mushroom material. A lot of more expensive vegan footwear isn't plastic, that's what you are paying for. If you are vegan then you tend to be on discussion forums and use ethical websites who mark each company/product on sustainability/animal welfare/human welfare etc. So would do your research. People are starving and dying of thirst because we use their arable land and water to grow crops for animal feed, that's a fact. But then if we considered horse hide fully manufactured in this country, there'd be outrage.

Devonbabs · 27/07/2024 09:02

Errors · 27/07/2024 08:19

Wow, bit harsh calling the OP an idiot. I think she makes a very good point!

what good point? She’s picking on a small part of a car, decrying how bad it is for the environment- would hypocrite be a better term? She’s either intentionally started a thread to slag off vegans or not bright enough to spot the hypocrisy- which is it?

Devonbabs · 27/07/2024 09:05

Demelzatheredhaired · 27/07/2024 08:20

Hmm. One major problem I have with plastic imitation leather is that it has a lifespan of about 3 years before it starts disintegrating into disgusting little flakes that stick to your skin. A real leather jacket or handbag will last 30years or more.

I am interested in trying out the new plant based leather imitations like pineapple, mushroom or cork based products to see how well they last.

Well animals in the meat/leather production industry usually have a lot less than a three year life span so the imitation leather is lasting longer on me than the “leather” is lasting on the only animal who should be wearing it.

lokomoko · 27/07/2024 09:06

I agree plastic is not a great alternative as it is not a natural product, but leather itself is terrible for the environment and according to this article natural leather is three times worse for the environment than PU (vegan leather).

https://www.peta.org/issues/animals-used-for-clothing/leather-industry/leather-environmental-hazards/

Although some leather makers deceptively tout their products as “eco-friendly,” turning skin into leather also requires massive amounts of energy and dangerous chemicals, including mineral salts, formaldehyde, coal-tar derivatives, and various oils, dyes, and finishes, some of them cyanide-based. Most leather produced in the U.S. is chrome-tanned, and all wastes containing chromium are considered hazardous by the EPA.

Tannery waste contains large amounts of pollutants, such as salt, lime sludge, sulfides, and acids. The process of tanning stabilizes the collagen or protein fibers in skins so that they stop biodegrading—otherwise, the leather would rot right in your closet.

People who work in and live near tanneries suffer, too. Many die of cancer possibly caused by exposure to toxic chemicals used to process and dye the leather. The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention found that the incidence of leukemia among residents in an area near one tannery in Kentucky was five times the U.S. average.

Arsenic, a common tannery chemical, has long been associated with lung cancer in workers who are exposed to it on a regular basis. Studies of leather-tannery workers in Sweden and Italy found cancer risks “between 20% and 50% above [those] expected.”

In addition, raising the animals whose skin eventually becomes leather requires vast quantities of water and wide tracts of pastureland, which must be cleared of trees. In fact, in the last half century, 70 percent of the Amazon rainforest has been cleared to make way for pastures or for growing feed crops. This mass deforestation causes habitat loss for millions of species, eliminates the Earth’s tree canopy, and drives climate change. Animal agriculture and its methane- and nitrous oxide–rich products, including leather, are leading contributors to climate change.

Runoff from feedlots and dairy farms also creates a major source of water pollution. Leather has one of the greatest impacts on eutrophication of all materials used for fashion, a serious ecological problem in which runoff waste creates an overgrowth of plant life in water systems, which suffocates animals by depleting oxygen levels in the water and is the leading cause of hypoxic zones, also known as “dead zones.” The EPA has confirmed that factory farms account for 70 percent of the water pollution in the U.S. By some estimates, animal agriculture is responsible for more greenhouse gases than all of the world’s transportation systems combined.

Huge amounts of fossil fuels are consumed in livestock production as well, and cow-derived leather has almost three times the negative environmental impact as its synthetic counterparts, including polyurethane (PU) leather.

The production of leather hurts animals, the environment, and the workers who manufacture it. The only ones who benefit are people who profit from the misery and suffering of others. Thankfully, there are plenty of sustainable vegan leather options to choose from today that mimic the properties of leather without the cruelty to animals or environmental devastation.

Environmental Hazards of Leather | PETA

Raising animals for food and leather requires huge amounts of feed, pastureland, water, and fossil fuels.

https://www.peta.org/issues/animals-used-for-clothing/leather-industry/leather-environmental-hazards

MassiveOvaryaction · 27/07/2024 09:08

I think the evolution of etymology is vinyl → PVC → pleather → vegan leather, depending on what the view of the people is at the time. Like 'vinyl' was new and interesting way back when, and now veganism is the in thing it's going to be part of the marketing.

Devonbabs · 27/07/2024 09:12

Errors · 27/07/2024 08:30

This absolutely does not read as a vegan bashing thread to me at all. It seems as though the OP is sick of companies greenwashing - which is exactly what many of them are doing.

It isn’t an attack on people’s beliefs - in fact I would say quite the opposite. People who are environmentally conscious shouldn’t be fooled in to making incorrect choices based on dubious marketing techniques.

For me, my car is an old petrol car with fabric seats that I barely use. I plan on running it until it dies. God knows what the carbon footprint is of a brand new car…

Just like someone up thread is talking about actual vegan leather handbags. I just don’t own a handbag. Much better.

Over consumption and throwaway culture (new cars every three years, new sofas every three years etc) is one of the main environmental issues IMO

No, if the OP wasn’t bashing vegans and actually cared about the environment she would have said “ I’m disgusted about the amount of plastic on cars, even some of the seats are now plastic” if she’s so concerned about the environment to that extent she probably wouldn’t be buying a new car. Vegans tend to be very educated about the products they use. Veganism is about animals, not the environment, although many care about both.

You care about the environment, you’re not buying a new car. Spot the difference with the OP.

greengreyblue · 27/07/2024 09:15

Only said the very same yesterday! Plastic shoes are now vegan leather! A marketer’s dream! 😂

GingerPirate · 27/07/2024 09:20

I wouldn't say a con, I would say crap.
Either you want the real thing or you don't and then you look for alternatives, but "vegan leather" is just a clever marketing move.
Decaf coffee, or a lady who is "a little pregnant ".
Fucking world. 😁

TheresMillionsSaidGeoffrey · 27/07/2024 09:22

It's great that so many here are worried about the environment and plastics. I'm sure they are just as concerned about the devastating impact that the meat and dairy industry have on the earth. Halo

lokomoko · 27/07/2024 09:22

I think the point is, neither are good for the environment, leather is bloody terrible (see above) and PU is not a sustainable alternative (even if it has a third of the environmental impact vs leather) so I think we will see more of the fruit-based leather products coming to the fore soon. Hope so!

Useruserdoubleuser · 27/07/2024 09:24

It’s daft but I suppose is helpful in removing the stigma of buying cheap plastic things.
No need for car seats to be leather if the plastic product does the same job.
I try and shop mindfully. For bags just buy 2nd hand. For shoes I buy quality leather. On Vinted where possible. It’s about not wasting stuff.

rkahic · 27/07/2024 09:24

Clearly vegan leather isn’t leather, why not just say it’s plastic.

GargoylesofBeelzebub · 27/07/2024 09:30

Drives me nuts. I hate when you want to buy a bag and search for or filter on leather and you get loads of plastic bags. No. I want leather. Plastic is not any kind of leather.

MrHarleyQuin · 27/07/2024 09:32

I think it should state more clearly what it is made of and the term "vegan leather" should be banned. So it should be labelled as being made from oil, cork, cow etc.

midgetastic · 27/07/2024 09:33

Useruserdoubleuser · 27/07/2024 09:24

It’s daft but I suppose is helpful in removing the stigma of buying cheap plastic things.
No need for car seats to be leather if the plastic product does the same job.
I try and shop mindfully. For bags just buy 2nd hand. For shoes I buy quality leather. On Vinted where possible. It’s about not wasting stuff.

I don't see using animal skins from animals already killed for food as worse than killing animals indirectly through the production and disposal of plastic

So leather every time please for me

MrHarleyQuin · 27/07/2024 09:36

midgetastic · 27/07/2024 09:33

I don't see using animal skins from animals already killed for food as worse than killing animals indirectly through the production and disposal of plastic

So leather every time please for me

That would be great if the animals were used for both but I don't think they are.

deeahgwitch · 27/07/2024 09:37

DoreenonTill8 · 27/07/2024 07:19

Back in the 90s we called it PVC, and it.was known as cheap and nasty.... now its morally superior!

I agree.

Klippityklopp · 27/07/2024 09:38

YANBU

No leather can be vegan by the mere definition of what leather is

IncessantNameChanger · 27/07/2024 09:39

I have a vegan leather bag. It sheds and peels and going in the bin dispite it being structurally sound still. Can't imagine how a seat on car would hold up. That little flakey plastic gets everywhere. It's very annoying

TheYearOfSmallThings · 27/07/2024 09:40

I don't think it is a con, because "vegan leather" means "not leather".

As long as it is very clearly stated (so that I can avoid it) I don't mind the term.

DeliciousApples · 27/07/2024 09:41

The 'vegan leather', or pvc as I would describe it, biker jacket, boots, and multiple handbags I have had over the years all degraded in sunlight and the leather look layer started to fray and peel off. I had to bin them all. One item had only been out and about a dozen times tops. Total waste of money.

That decay will presumably happen with these interior car furnishings too.

Perhaps quicker as I believe it's linked to sunlight and unlike my handbags, which are stored in a cupboard when not in use, your car could be in daylight outside all the time during the day.

So I'd avoid unless you just want the car for two or three years in which case it would be fine as it takes a good few years to degrade.

Longma · 27/07/2024 09:41

This reply has been withdrawn

This has been withdrawn by MNHQ for breaking our Talk Guidelines. at the request of it's author.

Anotherparkingthread · 27/07/2024 09:45

Anybody who links any peta article is a nutcase and wildly ill informed. Peta are a horrendous organisation and their shelters kill 70 percent of the animals that arrive in them. They are known to have done all kinds of batshittery that I won't bother going in to here.

Leather is fine. It's a better material, It is better for the environment as we are not about to stop producing beef cattle and eating beef.

There was a big push for vegan leather recently and my partner wanted a pair of shoes. Literally fell apart within a few months. I dread to think how much vegan leather tat is being put out in to the world, filling landfill and whatnot. I have leather bags and bits horse tack that are 30 years old and look new once they have been cleaned and oiled.

I have a beautiful brown leather sofa which, again, looks brand new after I put some leather honey on it.

I won't swap to anything else.

StormingNorman · 27/07/2024 09:47

It’s just pleather renamed for the 2020s. Still the same nasty, cheap, sweaty shit it’s always been.

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