Can ex demand holiday details?

[BookArt]

Two kids are under five. First court hearing about the kids is next week. Ex doesn't see kids at the moment due to concerns about his ability to look after the kids. Police investigating ex assaulting me since our split.
I gave 6 weeks notice of a UK holiday. Now 5 weeks later, 1 week before we go, ex tells me he does not give permission for the children to go unless he has the address and who is going on the trip. I could have guessed this would happen as control was an issue throughout.
Now I am happy to tell him the county as a location, and make sure he understands that the kids will videocall at the same time and day as normal as one videocall falls while we are away. I don't want to tell him anything else as I'm really looking forward to not having to look over my shoulder while away.

Is that reasonable or do I need to tell him all details?

He's done this because I stopped a videocall yesterday that was nearly an hour long where he was watching the kids play but they weren't engaging with him. It was past their bedtime and rather than relaxing they were running around getting hyped up.

We had it written into court orders both with my ex and my dh ex. Worked both ways and we shared details a month before.
That being said he can't stop you holidaying in the uk

In a normal civil co parenting relationship, it would be reasonable to tell you ex about what the children are up to and let them know about holidays even in the UK - but this isn’t civil due to the context of controlling behaviour and domestic abuse.

You have parental responsibility for your own children and you live in England, so you can take your children wherever you like, you don’t have to ask his permission to go on a holiday anymore than you would have to tell him you are going to the park or to visit you aunt Doris in the next village.

Abroad would be different but generally courts still take a dim view of a parent stopping their children going on holiday to get at their ex.

Responses on here are bonkers. If this was a woman wanting to know where her kids were going, everybody would be up in arms saying she has the right to know because of course a mother should know where her kids are at all times.

Don't treat him how you would like to be treated. He's an abusive arsehole and will take any opportunity to abuse you. You telling him where you are going this time will absolutely make no difference to him telling you where he takes them on holiday. He will use that information as a weapon regardless of how you reasonable and reciprocal you are. You don't need to act like the better person just protect yourself and your children

The thing is, when you split from your child other parent you lose control over a lot of things. Unfortunately there's not much you can do about that but you can decide how much control they continue to have over you.

"Treat others as you wish to be treated" is a nice sentiment but doesn't really work with someone like your ex. Just because you share certain information with him doesn't mean he'll return the favour.

My DHs ex is horrid. When we got together he told her about me when we knew things were serious and he wanted to introduce me to the kids. He thought this was the right thing to do and it probably was. But did she do the same when she met someone? Did she heck. We found out her new boyfriend had moved in after the fact and the poor kids went home to some guy sitting topless on their sofa.

I've learned the hard way to keep information sharing to an absolute minimum. Yes, it's hard not knowing where's she takes my DSD or does on her time but there's nothing we can do about that. So instead we protect our privacy and sanity on our end.

Nope. Sorry. When my ex takes the kids away I'll know it's Cornwall or France, near X or whatever but I have no need to know beyond that.

Did you miss the bit where he physically assaulted her and has been controlling for some time? That rather changes things, no?

Please don't lie about where you're going, if he finds out he will throw that at you at every opportunity and question as to whether anything you say in future is true, not because what you say won't be but so he can just keep reminding you of how he caught you out.

But not if she was abusive.

In a normal civil relationship, of course it would be courteous to communicate such info.

Well done OP for leaving him and for questioning what he's telling you.
I was in a similar situation many years ago. ExH used to insist on daily phone calls to DC and I facilitated it as I though it was in my child's best interest. In hindsight it was all about controlling me. ExH wanted to know what I was doing and that I was at home. Womens aid really helped me
You're doing great. Stay strong and you will learn to trust your instincts again in time.

This - you only need permission if you are taking them out of the country. He’s being a dick. Ignore him.

Not if she is abusive

I have an abusive ex and when he bothered with his children I would tell him where we went on holiday "Blackpool" "london" "Scotland" I wouldn't tell him exactly but he would get a general area

Since you are still going through court, it may be an idea you chat to your solicitor about this. They will be used to this behaviour and will be able to advise you.

Re trackers, get a garage to do this. Yes it will cost, but they should be sympathetic and do a good job. If they find anything you're laughing.

I would advise motion sensor cameras. That way any nocturnal visits, to put trackers in place etc, are recorded.

He's abusive and controlling - you have said so yourself. He is going to use every method he can to abuse and control you still (I know this as I have spent the last 20 years divorced from a controlling arsehole). He will do this through the video calls, his demands, his requests to know where you are or any other thing that pops into his head that he thinks he can use against you.

You are being reasonable and wanting to 'do unto others as they would do to you'. Please remember that the police are investigating this man for assault against you. Every time you feel like you need to be reasonable, remind yourself of how badly he has behaved and how inconsiderate and controlling he is. Was he reasonable, did he behave well, did he do unto you as he would like done to himself? No, of course not.

Going on holiday in the same country does not count as a 'major decision' about the children's lives, so even though he has parental responsibility, he doesn't need to know the details. He cannot give permission, as his permission is not needed!

Big hug to you @BookArt . Try and get some counselling if you can. It helps a lot.

Nope, you don't have to tell him anything. Just that your going away and you won't be sharing those details.
I would advise against lying though, have been through the courts myself and they'll take a dim view of this if found out, even though it's perfectly reasonable under the circumstances. Good luck, and enjoy your holiday.

How is that the same as the op telling him she is somewhere else??

I don't think it's unreasonable to say: "we're going on holiday to X area on these dates". I did that with my XH. I didn't give much more detail in the first few months after we had split (he had turned verbally abusive, but not physical).

If he 'blames' you for calls going wrong, I'd be quietly recording them. Phone or camera. So you have comeback when you eventually go to court.

You don't have to tell him where you're going; don't 'humour' him by lying, because that could make him feel entitled to knowing more and pressuring you and causing an issue if he shows up and discovers you've lied. Just don't.

@Whatabonkersworld thank you for this! So helpful. So glad you're in a better place!!

I wouldn't tell him where you're going on holiday Op if he doesn't see the DC in person at the moment. If he's that controlling he might just turn up and make a scene in front of the DC. If you must say something tell him the county but no details.

Thank you for all of this! Really good advice that I definitely had not thought of, and just seeing it in black and white really helps to get things straight. It's so easy for me to give advice to people, but very different when I'm emotionally invested and also needing to learn how to say no again!

I'm going to tell him an area, he already knows the dates, I'll confirm the video call will happen.

I'm going to keep the video calls to 15mins max and be more firm about ending them. If he also points his camera at the ceiling for a few minutes I will say goodbye and hang up also (Yeh... Don't get me started). Boundaries are very much needed in this context.

@CandiedPrincess I understand what you are saying, I would hate if he took the kids away and I didn't know where they were. Completely reasonable to be upset about it which is why I was doubting myself. However, this relationship isn't civil, his behaviour is escalating and erratic since we moved out and I don't want the kids to witness anything further. So I'm constantly thinking what is best for them. If he had raised concerns 5 weeks ago about the holiday when I informed him I would understand, instead yesterday he asks the five year old questions to get the information (5 year old didn't 't know the answers as it was supposed to be a surprise, surprise was ruined by ex). He didn't ask in a civil manner, he made threats and demands including name calling. I can only be hopeful that in the future we can both be civil about these things.

Doesn't sound like the ex in this case is a good person. He is barred from having direct contact with DC at the moment as he is unable to take care of them and he is currently under police investigation for assaulting the mother of his children. In this case OP cannot trust him and needs to be very careful.

You are NOT an idiot… you are a strong woman trying to do the best for your children. Everyone learns by their mistakes - either we live and learn or we die as fools! I’m only saying this as controlling partners try to convince us we really are stupid and are incapable of doing anything right. Never believe it 🩷

Absolutely agree with not telling him the exact date, keep it vague. If you have already told him & you're at all worried about being followed, can you leave a day early? Stop in a travel lodge or similar overnight, they have family rooms.
Good luck & best wishes for your happier future.

Remember to add in the court order that the children's passports have to be with the parent who is taking them abroad three weeks before the expected departure date. This will avoid any last minute aggro over 'lost' passports and allow you time to get replacements.