tto think it should be illegal to travel abroad for anonymous egg/sperm donation?

[ZoeCM]

If the government can ban people from travelling outside the UK for FGM, why can't they ban this? It's absolutely appalling that clinics will destroy all records of a child's biological parent in this day and age. Yes, the child can potentially trace their parents through companies such as AncestryDNA, but there's no guarantee they'll be successful. It's a massive abuse of power.

Anonymous donation is all about what's best for the recipients and the donor, never the child. AIBU to think it should be illegal to travel abroad for this purpose?

I do think this is very relevant. Perhaps the heat of this debate has been taken out with the help of modern technologies?

You want to to tell me what I can and cannot do with my eggs? Yeah alright.

I'm more concerned for children resulting from egg/sperm donation. A friend was conceived using donor eggs and it's caused her lots of issues and issues for her family. She has got to know lots of other donor conceived kids via a group who all have issues and many feel it should be banned.

But yeah, you just think of yourself rather than the consequences for those conceived using your eggs. It's always about the wants of adults rather than the needs of the children

@protectoroftherealm there are strict rules about donations of other parts of your body

@LoremIpsumCici but not everybody’s DNA is on a database

“It’s always about the wants of the adults”

100% bang on. You are right. The problem is that you are applying this only to the use of donor gametes. All and any form of conception/adoption is 100% about the wants of the adults.

But if you’ve managed to do so with your own eggs/sperm and no assistance needed then you are above judgement, even if you’ve conceived in terrible circumstances and given your child a shit life that results from those circumstances. As long as they know the genetic material that led to that shit life though, it’s cool. 🤷🏻‍♀️

“A group who all have issues” - those who are unhappy shout the loudest. Many of us know donor conceived people who are very happy to be here with their loving families. Playing devils advocate, why do their good experiences count for less?

@adviceneeded1990 its not when it comes to adoption, it’s about the child, and it should wherever some form of donation is involved.

The information should always be available for the child and they can choose whether they want that information.

Maybe we should stop poor people having kids? There was a (awful) thread earlier about whether you should have a kid if you have ASD/ ADHD in case you pass it on. What about women who are abandoned by their partners. Should they be allowed
to continue the pregnancy or are they just thinking of themselves? If you were a certain kind of devote Christian you might even think it was wrong for people of other religions to have children as they would grow up not having the opportunity to be saved!! The reality is that children are born into all kinds of situations , for better or worse and regardless of your subjective moral judgements about right and wrong, and no we can’t go around policing other people’s reproductive choices.

Is it about the child? The way in which the adoption takes place is child centred but deciding you want to adopt initially is presumably because you want to be a parent/have a family? So the initial “want” belongs to the adult/adults.

We won’t agree on this and that’s ok. As I’ve said already on this thread I’m coloured by own work experiences as well as my experience with infertility. Every trauma case I’ve worked with except one, the trauma has been inflicted by those who share genetic material with the child. Sadly there are far worse things in the world than donor conception and I’ve seen many of them first hand. So the hyperbolic use of terms such as “evil” on this thread, I find annoying.

If my mother told me she’d been abroad for donation because she wanted me so very much, as an adult I’d understand. Even as a child I’d get why she did it and feel loved.

Nothing you can say will convince the majority otherwise and your comparison to FGM is almost as barbaric as the practice itself.

Get a grip

Maybe we should stop poor people having kids? There was a (awful) thread earlier about whether you should have a kid if you have ASD/ ADHD in case you pass it on. What about women who are abandoned by their partners. Should they be allowed
to continue the pregnancy or are they just thinking of themselves? If you were a certain kind of devote Christian you might even think it was wrong for people of other religions to have children as they would grow up not having the opportunity to be saved!! The reality is that children are born into all kinds of situations , for better or worse and regardless of your subjective moral judgements about right and wrong, and no we can’t go around policing other people’s reproductive choices.

I'm not religious in the slightest.

Poor people can be good parents so I'm not sure what you're talking about there. Same for women who are abandoned by their partners etc.

I don't think children should deliberately be created to not be with their biological parents. I think it's unethical and doesn't centre the child's needs. Obviously there are cases where adoption is necessary, that is hopefully giving an already existing child the loving home they need. Adoption centres the child's needs.

I disagree with surrogacy too.

It's a forum where we share our views and I think egg/ sperm donation and surrogacy should be banned.

Did this happen to you though?

Agree that the comparison to FGM is outrageous and offensive.

If my mother told me she’d been abroad for donation because she wanted me so very much, as an adult I’d understand. Even as a child I’d get why she did it and feel loved.

You can't know until you have been through it. My friend who was conceived by donor has been through every emotion possible and is still receiving therapy now to try and deal with that. It's had a huge impact on her relationships with her parents and partners. She's never felt like she fully belongs anywhere and although she desperately wanted children, she has chosen not to have any because of the impact it has had on everything. She is far from alone in her feelings and knows lots of donor conceived people who have similar feelings.

There are also rules about Egg Donation, as well you know.

I didn’t suggest you were religious. Of course poor people can be good parents- So can non-biological parents. So can single mums where dad is nowhere in the picture from day zero. Plenty of children grow up without connections to their biological parents for many, various reasons and live full, meaningful and fulfilled lives. (And plenty of children grow up with their biological parents and do not).

I don't think children should deliberately be created to not be with their biological parents…. I think egg/ sperm donation and surrogacy should be banned*

Ok well if we are simply stating our views at face value , as they are - I think your views are fascist, and derived from a position of narrow-minded, ignorant complacency 🤷🏼‍♀️.

Ok well if we are simply stating our views as they are - I think your views are fascist, and derived from a position of narrow-minded, ignorant complacency

You would be wrong. My views are about prioritising a child's needs, not an adults wants. Biology matters. We see that in do many adoption stories. To deliberately inflict that on a child is wrong.

Except I’m not wrong.

And i didn’t say biology doesn’t matter, it matters in the same way that all kinds of things matter, sometimes and in some ways , but also aren’t the be all and end of of what makes a happy , meaningful and fulfilled life. There are all kinds of ways to create a family and centre/
prioritise children’s needs.

Having children is about an adults “wants”. It’s inherently selfish. We are a selfish species.

Having children is about an adults “wants”. It’s inherently selfish. We are a selfish species.

Creating children with the intention that they won't be raised with their biological parents is very different. Let's not pretend it's not. Biology matters as much as people pretend it doesn't.

It matters to some people. Surely the massive range of experiences on this thread shows that?

But England have acknowledged the ethical importance that children have the right to genetic knowledge, and there is a reason for that. Whilst people are obtaining their donor egg or sperm from other countries they don’t know/care whether their resultant child will want that knowledge

I didn’t become a parent because I wanted to. I became a parent because I was in a sexual relationship with someone of the opposite sex and I became unexpectedly pregnant. Having further children was deliberate, because I believed it would be best for my child/children to have siblings. It was child-centred.

So all parenthood is clearly not all about adult wants.

It is all about adult wants if people pursue parenthood in a blinkered way, not considering what is best for the child, for example, circumventing child-centred laws to get cheaper, less ethical fertility treatment.

Not in countries other than the Uk where it is not regulated.

But if you’ve managed to do so with your own eggs/sperm and no assistance needed then you are above judgement, even if you’ve conceived in terrible circumstances and given your child a shit life that results from those circumstances. As long as they know the genetic material that led to that shit life though, it’s cool.

That isn’t true at all is it? People are judged for all sorts of bad parenting.

You wanted to have sex- that was about you, and you did so without adequate contraception, that’s also about you. None of that was to benefit the child.

You then thought you should have other kids- that wasn’t for the benefit of your not yet conceived children either.

Presuming you became pregnant as the result of a contraceptive fail, and that you live in a country where you have a choice, didn’t you choose to continue a pregnancy and therefore become a parent? Choosing not to abstain, therefore risking pregnancy, and choosing not to end a pregnancy, are definitely adult choices. Will you explain to your children that one was an accident and the subsequent ones weren’t wanted by you but only to give your first child a sibling? I’d imagine accessing that info might be quite distressing to your ethically conceived kids.